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Author Topic: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s  (Read 27111 times)

Offline hesham

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2006, 11:06:06 am »
My dears,

you still don't believe me,I rebeat I have a really
picture to this aircraft,but the book was not
popular.and I think it was not a full scale mock-up.

Offline flateric

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2006, 11:31:18 am »
What the title of the book and what do you think it was?
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline hesham

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2006, 11:38:39 am »
The book,

 Warplanes of the 21st century, by Bill Yenne.

Online PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2006, 11:51:58 am »
I've seen the Bill Yenne book, it has a number of photographs of Erik Simonsen models. Perhaps one of those is your picture?
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Offline hesham

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2006, 08:11:52 am »
Yes my dear overscan,

and the picture was shown a little different from artist picture,such as
the really aircraft had a longer canard than the drawing,but the book
has also a picture to a fighter derivative from Rockwell HIMAT,and I
don't know it was a really aircraft built or a macket trick,because it was
shooted in the sky.

Offline flateric

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2007, 04:15:51 pm »
From October, 1993 Air International - I could not withstand...
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline flateric

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2007, 05:22:38 pm »
Stills from fresh German N24 channel stealth-related documentary. Stuff is claimed to be - of course - F-22. Interesting if this a pure speculation or another Lockheed's(?) desinformation CGIs (films is loaded of LM computer graphics of REAL F-22 from Lockheed, and appearence of this images is seems interesting). My German language knowledge is less than poor.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 05:25:40 pm by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Yildirim

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2007, 01:59:17 pm »
It looks a awful lot like the Lockheed ASTOVL concept designs.
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Offline Matej

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2007, 01:45:01 pm »
What came to my mind now is the speculation, if Russia is currently doing the same with the PAK FA. I mean model revealed by Paralay that looks like a warped F-22. Isnt it made only for disinformation campaign to cover real look of the airplane?

Thanks to God, his web moved to a much faster server and has a new adress http://www.paralay.com  Take a look!

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline Merv_P

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2007, 02:51:29 pm »
I found this on the DVIC site, on the first page of a search on 'ATF'. I haven't seen this design before; does anyone have more information?


Offline LowObservable

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2007, 03:05:47 pm »
It was an entirely notional concept from the USAF system project office (SPO) - around 1984-85, certainly well before downselect. Someone felt that there should be some kind of official depiction of ATF. By this time the SPO pretty much knew where the competitors were headed and were careful to draw something that did not look like any of them.

Offline sferrin

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2007, 03:15:49 pm »
I found this on the DVIC site, on the first page of a search on 'ATF'. I haven't seen this design before; does anyone have more information?



That brings back memories.  I remember seeing that back then and had completely forgot about it.  There was another that somewhat resembled LoFLYTE with twin engines, ventral intakes with half-cones, and was an off-white color with the aircraft flying towards the camera.
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Offline Sundog

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2007, 03:39:41 pm »
I remember seeing a design, I think it was on the cover of a Science magazine (maybe even named "Science"?) back around the mid to late 80's, and it was the twin engine delta wing canard design that Lockheed Martin was showing that sort of reminded me of a more blended MiG-1.42. It was coming straight at you while going almost straight at you. It was very good artwork.

I also remember seeing that picture posted at the beginning and wondering what was going on with the inlets. They reminded me of the head of an electric shaver.  :D I would swear on the version I saw, black and white, it looked like there were grills over the inlets. It might have just been poor printing.

Offline flateric

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2007, 02:46:01 am »
This one, indeed. This is Lockheed's artist's concept ca.1985.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 02:49:41 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Sundog

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2007, 01:56:18 pm »
Yes that's the design, and the cover of Wings is similar to the other cover I saw, but the other cover was still a different image. I actually have it buried in a box somewhere, either in the house attic or the garage attic. Thanks for posting those, though, because I always thought it was still a nice looking design.