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Author Topic: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s  (Read 26755 times)

Offline flateric

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ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« on: December 08, 2006, 02:09:30 am »
Interesting stills of scientist looking at what everybody (mostly, Soviet spies) should consider Lockheed ATF from Lockheed promo documentary, showing how far they went into not-showing how their real ATF would look like.

Third picture (ATF manufacturing) remembers me Khruchev's phrase of making rockets on conveyor like a sausages
« Last Edit: December 08, 2006, 03:41:21 pm by overscan »
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Offline paralay

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2006, 10:17:35 am »
 8)

Offline flateric

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2006, 01:06:50 pm »
Sasha, of course I know these artist's impressions (adding more Lockheed art studio masterpieces now):) I just wanted to show how far could cover-up attempts go in trying to steal the real thing shape. I often think of this regarding I-21/PAK-FA.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2006, 03:40:57 pm by overscan »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2006, 01:55:55 pm »
Keep in mind... this particular "ATF" was deisgned and painted by Syd mead, the industrial designer who gave the world the "spinner."



So, yes, it's artistic, but it didn't have much to do with reality.

Which was the point.
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Offline flateric

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2006, 02:41:03 pm »
Keep in mind... this particular "ATF" was deisgned and painted by Syd mead, the industrial designer who gave the world the "spinner."

Blade Runner...oh, my favourite sci-fi movie...so, Syd Mead was hired by Lockheed to foolish our spies?

So, yes, it's artistic, but it didn't have much to do with reality.

Which was the point.

Sometimes it's strikingly remembers me our Frankenstain-inspired MiG 1.44...which also didn't have much to do with reality.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2006, 02:42:35 pm by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Matej

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2006, 02:59:25 pm »
Similar or not? Its from Code One.

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline flateric

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2006, 03:29:09 pm »
Where are damn canards?
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2006, 09:59:41 pm »
Syd Mead was hired by Lockheed to foolish our spies?

Seems that way. They made no secret that he was doign the art at the time, though... perhaps he simply took some generic fighter layout and made it realistic.


Quote
Sometimes it's strikingly remembers me our Frankenstain-inspired MiG 1.44...which also didn't have much to do with reality.

The best "phony designs" are the ones that make the other side spend lots of time, money and effort trying to copy it.
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And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline Skybolt

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2006, 07:17:35 am »
Ummmh, has anyone tried to use that ATF design to do some simulation model for X-Plane ?  ;)

Offline flateric

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"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Online hesham

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2006, 12:04:15 pm »
My dears,

a surprise to all member,
I have a really picture to dear (paralay) artistic
picture of Lockheed ATF project of 1986,it was shoted at its
lair,and the source mentioned it was actually built.

 the artistic picture from paralay which I mean it:

Offline flateric

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2006, 12:44:31 pm »
Dear Hesham, I don't know if you have read previous posts, but it was clearly explained that this is was graphics concept of ATF having nothing common to reality, made by Syd Mead for Lockheed. Thread purpose was to show that Lockheed even make a wind tunnel model to make everybody think that their ATF would look like this.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 12:47:04 pm by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2006, 12:59:36 pm »
I believe Lockheed's disinformation effort was primarily aimed not at the Soviets but at other US aircraft companies.
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Offline Sundog

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2006, 02:32:32 pm »
I don't think any of this had to do with dis-information and simply to do with the fact that the ATF designs were classified at the time. Anyone with a back ground in aeronautics could immediately recognize that the canard placement just about embedded on the spine of the Syd Mead conception wasn't feasible and was just an artist's concept of an "Advanced" fighter.

Offline flateric

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Re: ATF: speculation and disinformation from the 1980s
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2006, 08:46:31 pm »
I must agree, while I should mention that Northrop concept drawing published was not far away from the real stuff.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 04:24:45 pm by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works