Japanese next generation fighter studies pre GCAP (aka i3, F-3)

bobbymike

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Japanese technologists are committed to including a pilot in their proposed i3 sixth-generation fighter, regarding the need for onboard decision-making as indispensable in a combat aircraft for at least the next three decades. Among the range of technologies intended for pre-development for the prospective fighter, artificial intelligence has been left out. The agency leading the effort, the defense ministry’s Technical Research & Development Institute, will not discuss specific designs, but there are indications that it is studying an aircraft of about the size of the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

So far, the i3 is only intended as a technology acquisition effort. Full-scale development is far from being funded and would not begin until 2021, and even then only if Japan chose to build its own aircraft to replace Mitsubishi Heavy Industries F-2s in the 2030s. The timeframe coincides with that of the Next-Generation Tactical Aircraft, for which the U.S. Air Force released a request for information on Nov 3. While a very low-resolution concept drawing issued to illustrate the i3 does not necessarily represent the design that the institute has in mind, some of its features are considered to be realistic, notably the stealthy shape of the forward fuselage and absence of tail fins. Still, the drawing should not be taken too seriously. It may not be much more than a logo for the program.

The institute, which described its i3 technology development plan at a seminar here on Nov. 9 and 10, cannot specify such basics as the weight and thrust of the aircraft, because those figures will depend on the requirements of the air force. But thrust in the vicinity of 30,000 lb. is understood to be a realistic figure.

Assuming that the fighter has two engines and that it follows the trend toward higher thrust/weight ratios, it could emerge at about the size of the Super Hornet, whose empty weight is about 14 tons (31,000 lb.) and is not highly powered by current standards.

The experience of engine maker IHI is considered to confirm Japan’s ability to build such powerplants of its own design. IHI has independently developed the XF7-10 engine for the XP-1 maritime patroller, proving its integration skills, and it builds the General Electric F110 engines for Japan’s F-2s, showing that it has the manufacturing technology for engines of the required size. The F110 for the F-2 develops 29,000 lb. thrust.

The institute wants slimmer engines, to reduce drag, although there is no consideration so far of supercruise—supersonic flight without afterburner. To shrink the engines, it is researching materials that could stand higher temperatures: single-crystal turbine rotor blades and ceramic matrix composite (a ceramic reinforced with fiber, such as carbon fiber) for stator blades. A related effort will aim at making an advanced combustor. Higher temperatures in the engine will also improve efficiency, but the main aim is to reduce frontal area. The technologies could shrink diameter by more than 10% for a given level of thrust, so the frontal area of the engine could be cut by more than 19%.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?topicName=Check6&id=news/awst/2010/11/15/AW_11_15_2010_p37-268697.xml&headline=Japan%20Keeps%20Pilot%20In%20Sixth-Gen%20Concept&channel=&from=topicalreports
 
Might they go flap-less with vectored thrust per BAE's DEMON UAV demonstrator ??
 
I think that they are also clear in the decision, who is their enemy :)
 

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The main aircraft image appears to have certain coloring/shaping artifacts that makes me highly suspicious, since they are associated with y's flight, a consumer grade flight simulator developed in japan, and a frequent favorite of defense hawks and armchair generals. Just saying.
 
ouroboros said:
The main aircraft image appears to have certain coloring/shaping artifacts that makes me highly suspicious, since they are associated with y's flight, a consumer grade flight simulator developed in japan, and a frequent favorite of defense hawks and armchair generals. Just saying.

Do you mean YS Flight by Soji Yamakawa or something else?
 
Any 6th Gen fighter effort may end up in limbo for a quite a while, with the current situation.
 
Dragon029 said:
ouroboros said:
The main aircraft image appears to have certain coloring/shaping artifacts that makes me highly suspicious, since they are associated with y's flight, a consumer grade flight simulator developed in japan, and a frequent favorite of defense hawks and armchair generals. Just saying.

Do you mean YS Flight by Soji Yamakawa or something else?
I think he did, since google returns hits like www.ysflight.com which clearly state it's YS Flight. I had no idea of its issues with Armchair General and Keyboard Kommando culture.
 
Fair enough, I've been with the english YSF community for a few years and didn't know this either.

That said, the Japanese and Western YSF communities are somewhat segregated unintentionally due to plain old language barriers.
 
It’s an arms race Beijing claims it doesn’t want, Russia can’t afford, the United States believes it can’t afford and Japan probably isn’t prepared for on its own.
All the same, the intensifying competition to build radar-evading jet fighters has had a powerful effect on the politics, industry and military forces of the Pacific's four greatest powers – and none more so than Japan’s.
The most recent chapter in a tale that began in 2005 opened with a grainy photograph of a black-painted warplane, published on an Internet forum six months ago. On Christmas Day, Chinese government Internet censors allowed the first amateur photo of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force’s new J-20 stealth-fighter demonstrator to linger online.
http://the-diplomat.com/2011/06/23/japan%E2%80%99s-stealth-fighter-gambit/
 
Japanese Ministry of Defence opened next generation fighter study to the public in defence technology symposium in 2013.(29/October and 30/October)
 

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Japanese Ministry of Defence is designing conceptual three dimentional digital mockup using CAD software called 23DMU and 24DMU and doing several simulations.
23DMU is based on ATD-X Shinshin. 24DMU looks like YF-23 except wing shape. 25DMU is under development.
Source : J Wings 1/2014 No.185,Ikaros Publishing, Ltd. Tokyo.
24DMU's merit is small side direction RCS same as YF-23.
 

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It almost looks as though somebody went back to the drawing board after January 29, 2010. While the rest of configuration 24DMU is obviously very different to the T-50, the tandem-bay/tail-sting/spaced-engine layout certainly seems to take inspiration from it.
 
中距離空対空ミサイル : medium range air to air missile, 短距離空対空ミサイル : short range air to air missile. レーダーアンテナ : radar antenna, 前方 : forward direction, 側方 : side direction. 受信 : receive. 並列配置 : side by side installation, 縦列配置 : tandem installation.
24DMU has the ability to carry one anti ship missile and has aft looking radar. F-2 successor(F-3)?
 

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Trident said:
It almost looks as though somebody went back to the drawing board after January 29, 2010. While the rest of configuration 24DMU is obviously very different to the T-50, the tandem-bay/tail-sting/spaced-engine layout certainly seems to take inspiration from it.
Please expect the shape of 25DMU. ;)
 
Hi! 25DMU shape looks like these artistic impressions?
 

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Nice, verry nice ... but isn't this a fan-art ?? (even more since a tail of this configuration does not make any sense in comparison to the YF-23-style one ... at least IMO) :eek:
 
Yes it's a fan art based on real study.
 

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Thanks (as alway for Your posts on Japanese news ! ;) ) ... but what's the benefit of having such a tail ? ???
 
For those of us who don't understand Japanese - it can be a bit hard to tell which artistic impressions are closest to the R&D effort and which ones are just very good fan art. :)
 
Just another question: What's the current status of the ATD-X Shinshin ??? Any recent images available ??Deino
 
If I understand correctly, initially leaked 24DMU internal configuration image screenshot was quickly wiped out from the original web-source...
 

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Conjectural war over the Senkaku Islands (Diaoyu Islands)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuWIaifuMN4&feature=share&list=PLK16mMvtcpZqRzhCtoeBXEfEfQG44ZGTP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku112uQbhqs&feature=share&list=PLK16mMvtcpZqRzhCtoeBXEfEfQG44ZGTP&index=1
 

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Pretty sure those two videos and every other depiction of the "tailless" F-3 concept is derived from that lone i3 fighter in reply 11
 
Hi!
http://www.mod.go.jp/trdi/research/dts2010.files/S3/S3-1.pdf
There is a opinion in Japan that "China is a provocative dangerous state.
Since Chinese people's dissatisfaction to internal affairs is growing very much, the Chinese government will want to make Chinese people's interest turned to a foreign country".
 

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blackkite said:
Hi!
http://www.mod.go.jp/trdi/research/dts2010.files/S3/S3-1.pdf
There is a opinion in Japan that "China is a provocative dangerous state.
Since Chinese people's dissatisfaction to internal affairs is growing very much, the Chinese government will want to make Chinese people's interest turned to a foreign country".

Sorry but I don't understand what this statement has do do with the new type ... it is however surely related to the new CHinese ADIZ, which again can also be understood as a reaction to the Japanese expansion of their own ADIZ close to Chinese territory !

As such it can surely be disussed who provoked, who reacted and who made whatever again ... on the other side in China several think, that the Japanese government also only want to turn away from internal affairs and problems by this situation.

As uch back to topic please.

Deino
 
Not to mention the ongoing arms-race with India. Anyway, I think Blackkite was explaining the videos? - now returning to topic...
 
Sorry for political post.
These images are the artistic impressions for F-3E strike Shinshin. ;D
 

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A very solid design, but exploits too many derivative cues from YF-23. Mimmicking an existing airframe is cajoling , but there is a thin line of felt pen between the latter and soliciting.
 
blackkite said:
Sorry for political post.
These images are the artistic impressions for F-3E strike Shinshin. ;D

Where have I seen that before. . .oh yeah:
 

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