Blue Water

[Skyraider3D]

Is this any good ?

Fantastic, 100% better than anything I've seen till now. Many thanks!


That raises another question... are there any Blue Water missiles preserved?

It would appear at least a Cuckoo rocket motor was:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_field/3701321062/

[JFC Fuller]

According to: http://fuseurop.univ-perp.fr/bwater_e.htm

The Cuckoo would not have been used? Apparently something called Phoenix, but with a 17 or 24 inch motor?

That a Cuckoo has survived is not great surprise given how extensively the type was used in sounding and trials rockets before being replaced by Goldfinch.

http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/physics/outreach/the-rockets-pages/skylark

[Skyraider3D]

Thanks for the info!

[JFC Fuller]

For a bit more history see this document, note how the range progressively increases. Also, the desire for a more powerful warhead, this may explain the experimental 24 inch rocket motor.

http://www.mcis.soton.ac.uk/Site_Files/pdf/nuclear_history/Working_Paper_No_1.pdf

[Skyraider3D]

Nice overview, thanks!

[Barrington Bond]

Bought this nice photo at an airfair earlier this year.
 

[Skyraider3D]

Very nice photo indeed, thanks for showing!

[JFC Fuller]

Whilst looking for information about planned RAF Lightning squadrons I came across the following document which contains the conclusions of a meeting of the cabinet about the cancellation of Blue Water, it does not contain any surprises but it is interesting nonetheless.

[alertken]

Pols can be, ah, selective in their memories. Macmillan, Memoirs/VI,P335: (vice Douglas MGR-1B Honest John for France (yes, really!), Italy, FRG and UK, US urged Sperry MGM-29A Sergeant SSM to) “the tune of umpteen Mn.$”; UK declined “not a European rocket. It’s a racket of US industry.” BAC Blue Water was: “a better weapon (but pressure for Sergeant) was irresistible (on) favourable terms more common (for) washing machines (8/62 forcing) us to cancel at considerable loss” (£32.1Mn.)
 
In fact, once UK decided to restrict SSM deployment to BAOR, then inter-operation and free US warheads orphaned any UK-solo product. We perpetuated our HJs to 1977, then took Lance on the customary washing-machine deal.

[fredgell]

Everyone seen this?
http://specialistauctions.com/auctiondetails.php?id=1503182
'board room model'
 
Cheers
 
Fred

[JFC Fuller]

MoS in 1958, then MoA, funding Bristol(GW), then BAC(GW) as Prime, embracing its Bristol ramjet. I think work did not proceed beyond bench bits; MoA encouraged BSEL to attend firstly to Odin for Sea Dart.

In one of the OR.1182 files in the PRO mention is actually made of a proposal to provide Bristol with a contract for R&D of the ramjet for the X-12, I have no idea if the proposal was adopted but it seems to have gone further than the rest of the affair. Interestingly the X-12 appears to double in weight in about 2 years.

I am left wondering whether it could have been made lighter using the BS.1013 integrated ramjet and the Shelldyne fuel of the later Grand Slam II...?

[CJGibson]

Have seen mention of the FV426 as a launcher for Blue Water. Anyone encountered this before? Have seen FV426 as a vehicle for Orange William, but this is new to me. It's on a list of cargo for the Britannic/HP.111/VC10.

Chris

[TsrJoe]

there is a drawing of Blue water mounted upon a tracked chassis in one of the files at Kew, I do have a copy of it somewhere, I will see if I can dig it out

cheers, Joe

[JFC Fuller]

I doubt this helps, but maybe, one of the things I have learnt looking through the file at Kew is that FVRDE would look at every conceivable chassis for a new missile programme and there seems to have been something of a disconnect between FVRDE and the missile people- there is a fascinating FVRDE study about PT.428, suffice to say they didn't like it.

[CJGibson]

I've seen 'Tracked Blue Water launcher" before on a list of Belfast cargo options but always assumed it to be on a FV432 chassis, but this FV426 came as a bit of a surprise.

I wonder what prompted the change from a tracked TEL to the Bedford wheeled TEL.  Ease of movement around West Germany's excellent roads?

Chris