MBDA' Brimstone

[TinWing]

To be fair we had to do so by a certain date to comply with the Convention.

A convention I'm afraid to say we should leave....cluster munitions are massively effective, and tying our hands behind our back whilst the likes of Russia, China and Iran continue to use them and manufacture is insane...perhaps a no-first use policy could be applied...



Only prior to the signing of the Convention. BL755 were supplied in the main in the 80's and 90's.

The BL755 requires a low level approach and direct overflight of the target. Very effective at getting your own aircraft shot down. Even in the 1990s, it was clear that a medium altitude and guided delivery was necessary to keep out of the way of MANPADS. The RAF currently has no suitable platform for the BL755 and they had no inclination or resources to turn it into the equivalent of the American WCMD back in the 90s or 00s.

In any case, the ongoing conflict doesn’t feature massed armor formations and the pilots are even using pitch up maneuvers to fire unguided rocket. They’re too scared to maintain a line of sight with a target let alone fly directly over it. Looking back, the low level use of the BL755 would have been quite dangerous even during the late Cold War. Not that it mattered because RAF Germany would have only been active for a brief while before the Soviet-American conflict went full on “strategic.”

It’s also worth remembering that Yugoslavia was a major export/licensed production customer for the BL755 and we all know how that country ended up. This is why cluster munitions and land mines were banned by most of Europe. At the time, the focus was on expeditionary warfare with a humanitarian political motivation. It didn’t hurt that the BL755 was obsolete anyway.

 

[NMaude]

In any case, the ongoing conflict doesn’t feature massed armor formations and the pilots are even using pitch up maneuvers to fire unguided rocket.

The RBL755 would've been handy for slaughtering massed Russian infantry formations in the Russians meat-wave tactics.

 

[Scott Kenny]

The BL755 requires a low level approach and direct overflight of the target. Very effective at getting your own aircraft shot down. Even in the 1990s, it was clear that a medium altitude and guided delivery was necessary to keep out of the way of MANPADS. The RAF currently has no suitable platform for the BL755 and they had no inclination or resources to turn it into the equivalent of the American WCMD back in the 90s or 00s.

Resources I understand, but not the lack of inclination to make a WCMD...

 

[A Tentative Fleet Plan]

The RBL755 would've been handy for slaughtering massed Russian infantry formations in the Russians meat-wave tactics.

I can't imagine imagine a more wasteful means of employing the Ukrainian airforce.

You'd have to have aircraft loitering at tree-top level, within potential engagement range of significant number of Russian SAM and SPAAG systems, in the hope that they would get the calls for emergency air support in time, for being forced to directly over the FEBA, or potentially into the engagement zones of the SAM systems if tossing the bombs, and risk losing irreplaceable aircraft and pilots.

If you want to stop Russian infantry send artillery shells, guns and spare barrels.

 

[timmymagic]

Resources I understand, but not the lack of inclination to make a WCMD...

They did. See the below history section on Brimstone...see SWAARM and Damocles...

UK investigated lots of options to avoid overflying enemy armour formations....the answer for the UK was not to overfly...so Brimstone was developed. The US answer was WCMD on CBU-97.

I think the UK made the right decision...

Brimstone Guided Missile - Think Defence

Brimstone is a potent and precision-guided anti-armour missile that arms RAF Typhoons and Protectors

www.thinkdefence.co.uk

The BL755 requires a low level approach and direct overflight of the target. Very effective at getting your own aircraft shot down. Even in the 1990s, it was clear that a medium altitude and guided delivery was necessary to keep out of the way of MANPADS. The RAF currently has no suitable platform for the BL755 and they had no inclination or resources to turn it into the equivalent of the American WCMD back in the 90s or 00s.

The sub-munitions from the BL755 would be rather useful at the moment....as drone dropped, or FPV carried, payloads...the Ukrainians have been after Rockeye from the US for this very reason...

Some on the JP-233 submunitions would be rather useful as well...the mine was rather un-pleasant...

CRV-7 with MPSM would be a very useful payload for Ukrainian helicopters or SU-25 doing ballistic arc attacks...

Obviously M26 and the 155 DPICM would be gratefully received...

It’s also worth remembering that Yugoslavia was a major export/licensed production customer for the BL755 and we all know how that country ended up.

Yep...they built an MRL using rocket boosted BL-755...

 

[Scott Kenny]

They did. See the below history section on Brimstone...see SWAARM and Damocles...

UK investigated lots of options to avoid overflying enemy armour formations....the answer for the UK was not to overfly...so Brimstone was developed. The US answer was WCMD on CBU-97.

WCMD means you can release from high enough to stay out of MANPADS/AAA range, and probably let the WCMDs glide in from outside mobile-SAM range because you're at altitude.

 

[timmymagic]

WCMD means you can release from high enough to stay out of MANPADS/AAA range, and probably let the WCMDs glide in from outside mobile-SAM range because you're at altitude.

Unless they've got Buk or S-300...which the armoured formations of the main adversary would be covered by.

 

[NMaude]

Unless they've got Buk or S-300...

Good point but the Ukrainians have been actively hunting and destroying SA-11 and SA-12/20 batteries.

 

[timmymagic]

Brimstone has been rather shy in Ukraine with little seen....but there is a brief glimpse in the below video from 0.52 seconds in of a Brimstone launch and the effect on a BMP post strike. The video is from the 8th SSO, who we know have been using Brimstone for some time. Interestingly the platform carrying it is blurred out. Its likely that the launch platform continues to be a discreet, disguised setup (hence the blurring) its unclear if it is the previous Gazelle van setup, from what we can see from the blurring it appears to be unlikely though.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775381840024473740

View: https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/1775381840024473740

 

[robunos]

TF . . . did that guy just aim a boot at the FPV drone . . . ?

cheers,
Robin.

 

[TomS]

TF . . . did that guy just aim a boot at the FPV drone . . . ?

cheers,
Robin.

It looks like he's got a makeshift shield strapped to his arm, too. Very odd, and enough to make me a little bit skeptical of the whole video.

 

[jsport]

They did. See the below history section on Brimstone...see SWAARM and Damocles...

UK investigated lots of options to avoid overflying enemy armour formations....the answer for the UK was not to overfly...so Brimstone was developed. The US answer was WCMD on CBU-97.

I think the UK made the right decision...

Brimstone Guided Missile - Think Defence

Brimstone is a potent and precision-guided anti-armour missile that arms RAF Typhoons and Protectors

www.thinkdefence.co.uk

Wow, thank you timmymagic, ur post has the most on the proposed Damocles seen.
One could imagine just an unmanned bopping around an area for some hrs w/ belly full Damocles to spit out until returning to base and filling up again.

 

[timmymagic]

TF . . . did that guy just aim a boot at the FPV drone . . . ?

cheers,
Robin.

Just fell over at the wrong time.

It looks like he's got a makeshift shield strapped to his arm, too. Very odd, and enough to make me a little bit skeptical of the whole video.

His rucksack falls off his shoulder as he runs, thats what you see on his arm.

Video is very real, the attempted Russian recovery of the STRV122 by 2 BREM has been seen on other drone videos.

And to be honest, even though its actualy a rucksack, a Russian with a makeshift shield on his arm wouldn't get in the top 100 of weird videos recorded by Mavics and FPV in Ukraine...

 

[TomS]

His rucksack falls off his shoulder as he runs, thats what you see on his arm.

Video is very real, the attempted Russian recovery of the STRV122 by 2 BREM has been seen on other drone videos.

And to be honest, even though its actualy a rucksack, a Russian with a makeshift shield on his arm wouldn't get in the top 100 of weird videos recorded by Mavics and FPV in Ukraine...

Ah, that makes sense. I was really struggling to parse that whole segment.

You kinda have to feel for the guy, being chased by a flying hand grenade that probably sounds like a miniature buzz saw. It's straight out of a horror movie.

 

[Scott Kenny]

You kinda have to feel for the guy, being chased by a flying hand grenade that probably sounds like a miniature buzz saw. It's straight out of a horror movie.

We're half a step short of the "Screamers" movies... only thing missing is the robotic factories!