Aftermath
- Thread starter dan_inbox
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Conspirator
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this almost looks like colorized photos from WW2 after a bombing...... (Staying unbiased as possible here for obvious reasons) I hope this war ends soon with no global repercussions
It is already happening. Ukraine is part of Europe.
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Indeed it is. Point is, Ukrainians already know it, but some other Europeans are still hiding their heads in the sand and preaching appeasement.
And I'll stop here, lest it drifts into politics.
And I'll stop here, lest it drifts into politics.
paralay
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Newton's Third Law
To every action, there is always opposed an equal reaction; or, the mutual actions of two bodies upon each other are always equal, and directed to contrary parts.
In this context, it is interesting to consider your actions, so that this would never happen. It should be understood that you are limited in your influence on an external force, try to consider your steps to prevent conflicts
To every action, there is always opposed an equal reaction; or, the mutual actions of two bodies upon each other are always equal, and directed to contrary parts.
In this context, it is interesting to consider your actions, so that this would never happen. It should be understood that you are limited in your influence on an external force, try to consider your steps to prevent conflicts
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This should be nuanced a little.
1- Which Europe ? there are lot of political and geographical entities with the generic name. Geographically, even Russia is a part of Europe. Bielorussia too
2- As for the European Union, there are basic criteria to make a candidacy. With or without Russian agressor (let's take 2003 Ukraine, before Euromaidan, 2014 and 2022 conflicts ok ?) 2003 Ukraine did not matched EU candicacy by a veeeeery long shot (corruption, human rights - for a start).
The important point I'd like to make: integrating Ukraine into UE right now would be an emotional reponse to their all too real suffering. Whaterver Zelinsky says (and remember he is a pretty gifted actor, so beware of "emotional manipulation").
The UE, much like NATO and the USA, shall help Ukraine against its Russiana agressor. But full and immediate UE integration shall not be granted.
In passing, it would be unfair to the other countries banging at the door for integration.
Also, the present UE organizational model of 27 countries is pretty fucked up - it has been since 2001 Nice Treaty: worst thing ever happened to UE in a long time. Things have been stuck since then, 2005 making them even worse.
And I say that as a pragmatic moderate...
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Why go into unrelated, opinionated politics?
The point here is the amount of destruction.
I grew up with fresh memories of destruction near us, like Warsaw or Oradour-sur-Glâne in 1944. And with the hope that while such horrors might still happen in less developed parts of the world, we in Europe would not experience this again.
Only point is, this is a wake-up call to us all. No need for politics.
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Thank you.
lostcosmonauts
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by which, of course, you mean Ukraine should not have given up their nuclear weapons and accepted security guarantees in their stead
paralay
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If nuclear weapons had not been taken away from Ukraine, Europe would be lying in nuclear ruins right now
But that's not what I'm talking about
But that's not what I'm talking about
lostcosmonauts
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Ah, you mean Georgia should have been supplied with arms in 2008 to prevent this rerun
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"The shirt is nearer than the coat"
Just compare the frequentness of news in the media about Ukraine, with that of, say Yemen or Sudan.
And it doesn't seem to be just because of differences in the level of destructions.
(photos from Der Spiegel and Oregon Public Broadcasting via Google)
Though this thread certainly is good to remind us all of the consequences and dangers of this war, those quite
few posts already have shown, that an unbiased and apolitical discussion is hardly possible.
Hard facts about the thoughts and reasons on government level probably aren't available to anyone of us here
for both sides ! And there's still the old say from Bismarck, that "states have no friend, only interests".
And perhaps we should consider, that not even the majority of the Russian population really wanted this war,
but just were forced into it by their government ? There are always two sides to every question, but I don't
think, that we are able to answer that question here.
And before we have to deal again with reports about getting political, making propaganda or the like, I rather
lock this thread, ending with a plea, that especially with regards to this war, everyone should ponder every news,
statements, or alleged facts from all sides !
P.S.: ... and that certainly shouldn't be done about this theme only, but about everything. And yes, I know, it's difficult,
annoying and arduous, and no, I'm not good at it at all, too, but generally rather accepting, what's supporting my
own biased opinion ... So, another say, sorry : Everybody should put his own house in order first !
Just compare the frequentness of news in the media about Ukraine, with that of, say Yemen or Sudan.
And it doesn't seem to be just because of differences in the level of destructions.
(photos from Der Spiegel and Oregon Public Broadcasting via Google)
Though this thread certainly is good to remind us all of the consequences and dangers of this war, those quite
few posts already have shown, that an unbiased and apolitical discussion is hardly possible.
Hard facts about the thoughts and reasons on government level probably aren't available to anyone of us here
for both sides ! And there's still the old say from Bismarck, that "states have no friend, only interests".
And perhaps we should consider, that not even the majority of the Russian population really wanted this war,
but just were forced into it by their government ? There are always two sides to every question, but I don't
think, that we are able to answer that question here.
And before we have to deal again with reports about getting political, making propaganda or the like, I rather
lock this thread, ending with a plea, that especially with regards to this war, everyone should ponder every news,
statements, or alleged facts from all sides !
P.S.: ... and that certainly shouldn't be done about this theme only, but about everything. And yes, I know, it's difficult,
annoying and arduous, and no, I'm not good at it at all, too, but generally rather accepting, what's supporting my
own biased opinion ... So, another say, sorry : Everybody should put his own house in order first !
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