Author Topic: Euro Frigates  (Read 11438 times)

Offline pometablava

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Euro Frigates
« on: October 06, 2006, 02:08:29 pm »
Some projects from Le Bourget Naval 1992


Offline TinWing

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Re: Euro Frigates
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2006, 03:16:05 pm »
Some projects from Le Bourget Naval 1992



Wow!

The Franco-British frigate looks a bit like early French drawings of the Horizon class for a year or two later. 

The F3000 Italian frigate is the greatest find.  For years, I read about "updated variant of the Maestrale class," but this is the first graphical representation.  Wow!  Incredible!

Do you have any larger scans of the Franco-British or the Italian F3000? 

Do you remember your sources?  If so, any specifications?

Offline pometablava

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Re: Euro Frigates
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2006, 08:11:04 am »
Quote
Do you have any larger scans of the Franco-British or the Italian F3000?

Take a look at your email box ;)

Overscan have a good idea when decides that every post here should reference its source. Several members here enjoy Universitary level and we are habituated with the bibliographic references in our professional life but not for our amateur research activities :-[...I must admit that I'm more professional since I'm here ;D.
This scans come from my "no reference recording era" so it is incomplete. Might our French friends give some help?. It is a Defence Magazine which initials are DAI (Defense et Aviation International? ???)

It is number 111 Septembre/Octobre 1992, pg 72 and the author is Margareth Wildmoore


Frigate F3000

Highly automatization and stealthy features adopted. Standard Displacement: 3100 Tons. Lenght: 112,5 m. Width: 14,5 m. CODOG powerplant. Max speed: 34 knots. Max range: 5000 miles at 18 knots. Armament: 3x OTO Melara 76/62 Super rapido, 24x SeaWolf or Albatros (VLS), 8x OTOMAT Mk.2 and one helicopter (EH101 or NH90). A similar concept, the F1700 is mentioned but not fully described and no drawings are shown.
The light frigate F1700 would be armed in a modular basis to ensure a high degree of polyvalence.
Both designs are focused to the export market

There is no info about the Franco-British Frigate besides the drawing I posted.

In late 1992, after the NFR-90 program cancellation the most important European Frigate progams, according to the text, were:

Franco-British Frigate
Spanish F100 (ASM) and F110 (AA)
German-Nedeerland Type 124

Export Frigate programs:

Franco-German F-26
Italian F3000 and F1700
British Yarrow 2000 ton frigate for Malaysia
British type Loch (2540 ton, 107,8 x 13,52 m)
French  "Flexible" La Fayette (1000, 2000, 3000 ton in multiple versions)

Well, it is all I have. More data and pics will be welcome :)




Offline JohnR

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Re: Euro Frigates
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2006, 02:25:47 pm »
I think if anything the Franco British Frigate looks more like an early vestion of FREMM than Horizon.

Regards

Offline PMN1

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Re: Euro Frigates
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2006, 02:32:23 pm »
Intresting, the Franco-British frigate and the Italian F3000 uisng Sea Wolf are not mentioned by D K Borwn in his book 'Rebuilding the RN' and Brown seems to be 'God' when it comes to the RN.

Offline RP1

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Re: Euro Frigates
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2006, 03:01:20 pm »
Very interesting Pometablava.

DKB mentions the France-UK-Netherlands Frigate that arose from NFR-90, the "FUN".  He also mentions that the Head of Concept in the UK developed his own ideas.  The FF shown may be a french equivalent, as it shows the design ideas to emerge in the La Fayette and FREMM class.  I think I've seem that image in an issue of Janes also. 

That the fact that Italian ship could carry VLSW is not mentioned by DKB, is not surprising - other that that weapon it was not a UK design.

I think I have some information on the Yarrow 2K and Loch class.  I will have a look.

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Offline TinWing

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Re: Euro Frigates
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2006, 03:25:59 pm »
I think if anything the Franco British Frigate looks more like an early vestion of FREMM than Horizon.

Regards

The French favored a single block superstructure from the beginning for the Horizon class.

Offline TinWing

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Re: Euro Frigates
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2006, 03:36:36 pm »




Frigate F3000

Highly automatization and stealthy features adopted. Standard Displacement: 3100 Tons. Lenght: 112,5 m. Width: 14,5 m. CODOG powerplant. Max speed: 34 knots. Max range: 5000 miles at 18 knots. Armament: 3x OTO Melara 76/62 Super rapido, 24x SeaWolf or Albatros (VLS), 8x OTOMAT Mk.2 and one helicopter (EH101 or NH90). A similar concept, the F1700 is mentioned but not fully described and no drawings are shown.
The light frigate F1700 would be armed in a modular basis to ensure a high degree of polyvalence.
Both designs are focused to the export market

The F3000 does resemble the comtemporary Minerva class corvettes in overall layout, and perhaps the smaller F1700 might have been a stretched Minerva?



In late 1992, after the NFR-90 program cancellation the most important European Frigate progams, according to the text, were:

Franco-British Frigate
Spanish F100 (ASM) and F110 (AA)
German-Nedeerland Type 124

Export Frigate programs:

Franco-German F-26
Italian F3000 and F1700
British Yarrow 2000 ton frigate for Malaysia
British type Loch (2540 ton, 107,8 x 13,52 m)
French  "Flexible" La Fayette (1000, 2000, 3000 ton in multiple versions)

Well, it is all I have. More data and pics will be welcome :)





The different sized LaFayettes is hardly a suprise.  DCN made the sale to Singapore by promoting a 95m, 2200 ton ship....which ended up being the 3200 ton Formidable class.

The "British type Loch (2540 ton, 107,8 x 13,52 m)" is really a mystery to me?  I wonder which yard was promoting this design.

I also don't know what to make the of the Spanish F-110 or the German F-26.  Bremer Vulkan offered a F-25, and information on the design remained on Naval-technology.com long after Brmer Vulkan itself had disappeared.

Offline TinWing

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Re: Euro Frigates
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2006, 03:43:24 pm »
Very interesting Pometablava.

DKB mentions the France-UK-Netherlands Frigate that arose from NFR-90, the "FUN".  He also mentions that the Head of Concept in the UK developed his own ideas.  The FF shown may be a french equivalent, as it shows the design ideas to emerge in the La Fayette and FREMM class.  I think I've seem that image in an issue of Janes also. 

Around 1993, Jane's showed different drawing of the Horizon class for the UK and France.  The French ship had a single block superstructure, and the British ship had a double superstructure and helicopter pad/hangar that was lowered one deck.

Oddly, the 24-round Seastreak launcher was depicted on all of the early Horizon class drawings, although the text described it as a generic "Inner Layer Missile System?"

Offline RP1

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Re: Euro Frigates
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2006, 04:32:39 pm »
The Loch Class was designed by the Scottish firm of Hall Russell Ltd, responsible for the detail design of the Castle Class OPV.  A model was shown at the 1987 RNEE. 
Source: Royal Navy Frigates Since 1945, Leo Marriott.  This has some images. 

AFAIK SeaStreak was actually considered as an ILMS, but a range of options was under consideration, so it would always be "generic".  Thinking about it, the options would have been limited; SeaStreak, Goalkeeper or (as a fall-back), Phalanx.  RAM was not ready (IIRC) and Sea Zenith and Meroka had been previously rejected by the RN.  IIRC, Goalkeeper was the winner in a NATO CIWS evaluation.  I can't remember when LightWeight SeaWolf was cancelled offhand, but that might have been under consideration at an early stage?

RP1
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Offline RP1

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Vospers Frigates
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2006, 03:16:34 pm »
Since we are covering UK designs in this thread:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/RP1/Ships/Scans/vospers_98m_marriott.png


Reference:

Marriott, L, "Royal Navy Frigates since 1945, Second Edition", London, Ian Allen Ltd, 1990, ISBN0-7110-1915-0

Refinement of Mk 18 design, dating from 1985. 
Below decks hangar for 1 * Lynx.
1 * Spey / 2 * Diesel CODOG propulsion + electromotor for silent running.
Oto Melara 76/62 SR, 2 * LSE 30mm, 1 * Goalkeeper CIWS, 4 * Harpoon SSM, 4 * Stingray ASW Torpedoes in box launchers over the stern. 
Hull-mounted and towed array sonars.
Complement 84.

RP1
« Last Edit: September 14, 2007, 12:24:56 am by overscan »
"Just your standard-issue big gun."
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http://rp-one.net/

Offline RP1

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Re: Euro Frigates
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2007, 05:26:50 pm »
Loch class light frigate / corvette, designed by Hall Russell Limited, and presented at the 1987 RNEE.  2500te and 107.8m overall, Combined Diesel And eLectric propulsion and a range of possible weapons fits.  Weapons included a gun up to 127mm calibre, SSM and a PDMS.  The latter was housed in partially exposed launchers either side of the hangar. 

Note the tall mast, made possible by the weight of the diesels low in the ship, and the two funnels side by side amidships.

My only changes to the original are to add a slightly larger seaboat than the very small one indicated, and to add inlet vents at the base of the funnel.

RP1

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Offline Harrier

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Re: Euro Frigates
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2012, 10:27:22 am »
Several Vosper designs are shown on this website -  http://www.vosper.co.uk

E.g. 95m frigate



and a SWATH from c. 1985:



Full gallery: http://www.vosper.co.uk/images/newgallery/index.htm
BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft: www.harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm

100 Years  - Camel, Hurricane, Harrier: www.kingstonaviation.org