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Author Topic: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980  (Read 109719 times)

Offline Archibald

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Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« on: September 24, 2006, 01:21:00 pm »
The Mirage III was the result of an evoluting program launched in 1953. At first, it was for lightweight interceptors to reach mach 1.5 with a single AAM.
At the time, only 3 publics firms (SNCA N, SE and SO) and some private (Breguet, Dassault and Morane Saulnier) were able to build this kind of aircrafts.

The Nord-1400 Gerfault was not a contender for this program; the Nord Aviation entry was the Nord 5000 Harpon (I made a thread on it recently)
Others were the MS-1000 and Breguet 1002. These remains paper projects, but three others aircrafts flew (between 1953 and 1956)
- The Mirage 01/ I and then II
- The Durandal
- The SO-9050 Trident
All were powered by small engines such as the Turbomeca Gabizo of 1500 kgp of thrust or the Viper. This program was the high altitude complement of the NATO LWF fighter.

Then , the program evolved to a mach 2 interceptor. The Mirage II was never finished and its wings were used for the very first Mirage III, the -01 (17/11/1956).
The Durandal had flew in April 1956, the Trident had become the Trident II.

Then, in 1956, the program evolved again to a multirole mach 2 fighter, eliminating the rocket-powered Trident.

So the final oposed the Mirage III-01 to the Durandal, both powered by the 4500 kgp Atar-101 completed by a SEPR rocket (1500 kgp).
Operational variants would have had the Atar-9 of 6000 kgp of thrust, these were the Mirage IIIA and Durandal IV.
As the Mirage was clearly superior to the Durandal, it won the competition and the Durandal IV was never build.

Nord 5000 Harpon
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 01:02:01 pm by overscan »
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Offline Archibald

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2006, 01:25:38 pm »
Nord 5000 Harpon

Durandal, Durandal IV and Durandal IVM (naval variant)

MS-1000

Breguet 1002


« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 01:02:37 pm by overscan »
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2006, 02:05:29 pm »
Problem with your images?
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Archibald

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2006, 12:44:05 am »
That's clear. i have to try a second time!
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Offline Archibald

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2006, 01:13:18 am »
Here we are.
First, the sources of the photos (the pictures come from Jean Cuny book, Les avions de combats francais 1945-1960)

Mirage III-01
http://www.dassault-aviation.com/passion/gb/dassault_a_a_z/avions/detail.cfm?id=70

Mirage I
http://www.avions-militaires.net/fiches/mirage-i.php

Trident
http://perso.orange.fr/jets.for.ever/Pages%20du%20Site/protos%20f.htm

Durandal
http://www.aeroweb-fr.net/photos/62,sud-est-se212-durandal/photo,602.php

Now the photos and pictures

From up to down
MS-1000, Br.1002, Nord Harpon

(well I have some difficulties uploading the pictures)  ??? >:(
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Offline Archibald

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2006, 07:06:02 am »
 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( :'( :'( :'( :'( :( :( :( :(
I'm stubborn... please moderator, delete some of these posts...

Morane Saulnier MS-1000


Breguet Br.1002


Nord 5000 Harpon


Durandal and derivatives.


SNCASE Durandal (photo)


SNCASO Trident-II


Mirage 01


Mirage III-01 (AkA Balzac I)


Durandal IV


Mirage IIIA




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Offline Archibald

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2006, 07:23:28 am »
Correction : the  Mirage II never flew (not easy to follow this program, and I went nut with this damned file atachment :( )

The Mirage II and III-01 were both evolution of the I, with more power. The failure of the Gabizo engine (two powered the Mirage II) prompted the choice of the single Atar Mirage III-01.
This meant that the prototype of the Mirage II was scrapped, salvo the wings which were used to build the Mirage III-01!

Good article on the Trident here
http://jpcolliat.free.fr/trident/trident-1.htm
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Offline pometablava

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2006, 10:06:57 am »
Nice work Archibald

At the end you succeded with the pics ;)

What about starting a new topic on Mirage unbuilt versions?. I have read your contributions at whatifmodelers and keypublishing and I think it could be very interesting to enjoy your knowledge here.

Cheers,
Antonio

Offline Archibald

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2006, 10:23:50 am »
Ok, that's a good idea. I have a pile of these projects :) to share with you...(I recntly asked on Dassault website informations on the Mirage F3 :) )
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Offline Archibald

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2006, 12:56:30 pm »
The first Mirage to fly was named the Mirage-01. It took the air for the first time on june 25th 1955. It was powered by two Vipers with 730 kgp each. It also had an oversized tail. Totally underpowered, it nevertheless managed to break the sound barrier in dive, reaching mach 1.3.

The -01 was quickly improved into the Mirage I. It was still powered by Vipers, but they were now boosted at 930 kgp by a simplified reheat. At SEPR rocket also added power. The results were much better, the plane reaching mach 1.3... in horizontal flight.

Caracteristics of this early Mirages can be found at Aviafrance.
More to follow...
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 02:30:11 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »
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Offline Archibald

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2006, 01:14:51 pm »
Here we are

Dassault MD-550 'Mirage' 01 (1955 )
Span : 7.30 m   
Length :12.80 m                 
Empty weight :3320 kg   
MTOW :5150 kg
Engines :   2 Armstrong Siddeley 'Viper' 744 kgp each.

Dassault MD-550 'Mirage' I (1955)    
Span : 7.03 m   
Length : 11.50 m
Empty weight : 3330 kg   
Maximum weight : 5070 kg
Engines : 2 Bristol Siddeley 'Viper' (980 kgp) 2  SEPR 66 rocket motors of 1500 kgp
top speed :1380 km/h at 11000 m (35000 ft)
 
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Offline Archibald

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2006, 04:15:57 am »
Next step in the Mirage family was the Mirage IV... well, this family is really a mess!
The Mirage IV is more than a twin-engines Mirage III : it's genesis is much more complex.
The Mirage III-01 which flew in november 1956 lacked the Atar-9, shock cones in the air intakes. As a consequence, its top speed was around mach 1.7.
In the early Mirages, every change in the number (I, II, III meant different engine Ie more power)
The plane needed more power...a new engine. So, once again, the name was changed to Mirage IV. Under this name, various engines configurations were studied
- 1 Atar-9 (Mirage IVA /B)
- 1 Super Atar
- 2 atar 9 (Mirage IVC)
and some variants with rocket engines (Mirage IVF)

The Super Atar was never realised.
By lack of funds, the AdA chose the Mirage IVA. Finding that it was quite similar to the Mirage III-01, they named it Mirage IIIA. This plane flew on 12th May 1958, and was the first "real" Mirage III.

But the Mirage IVC was still alive... the AdA wanted it to replace the Vautours (its main competitor was the SO-4060) but once again budget cuts forced the cancellation of this aircraft.
It was nevertheless bringed back to life when De Gaulle "seized" power in may 1958 and decided to develop the nuclear deterrent.. the heavy fighter evolved into a light bomber. This one inherited of the Mirage IVA designation!! It flew in June 1959.
But the atar-9 limited the MTOW to 33 tons, cutting range to 2500km.
As this was clearly insufficient, a scaled-up variant was envisaged. Range, MTOW, wing area were nearly doubled. Of course, the engine power had to follow... as SNECMA was unable to create a 13000 kgp engine, foreign designs were selected.
those were
- J-75
- Olympus
- PS.13 Iroquois (yes, the Arrow engine...)
- RB-142 Medway (spey ancestor)

The J-75 was declared the winner and the Mirage IVB  program started in march 1959. It was abruptly stopped in september because of its foreign engine.
The Mirage IVA  was back, the range problem was solved by buying tankers in 1964...
Source http://www.mirage4p.com/slides/Historique/p02.htm
http://www.stratisc.org/partenaires/ihcc/ihcc_nuc1_Cabriere.html



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Offline Archibald

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2006, 04:37:17 am »
According to Stratis.org,
Par contre, la taille (surface, longueur du fuselage) et la motorisation sont en constante évolution. Devant les possibilités offertes, les exigences opérationnelles grandissent et les ingénieurs de la GAMD y répondent par toute une gamme d'avant-projets monoréacteurs qui portent le nom de Mirage IV. Leurs surfaces varient de 25 à 40 m2, leurs moteurs sont des ATAR de 6 à 7 et même 9 tonnes de poussée mais aucun ne répond entièrement à l'ensemble des souhaits de l'Etat-Major et pour tenir les exigences de montée de plafond à Mach 2, ils ont besoin de la poussée supplémentaire d'un groupe fusée. C'est pourquoi Marcel Dassault a proposé également un biréacteur ATAR 9 qui, avec ses 12 tonnes de poussée installée, est le seul à couvrir toutes les missions proposées sans l'assistance d'un groupe fusée.

"The size and mass of the fighter are not fixed yet in 1956. As a consequence, the requirement of the AdA are growing and Dassault propose various single-engine projects under the name
 Mirage-IV. Their wing area is between 25 and 40 m2, their engines are Atar ranging from 6 to 9 tons of thrust (Atar-9 and Super Atar)
But none of them had enough power for the AdA requirement in climb rate and height, so they need rocket-engine.
That's why Dassault also propose a twin atar-9 machine which is the only to fulfill the whole performance requirement without rocket. "

among those single-engine+rocket projects were the Mirage IVA, IVB and IVF.
caracteristics

MIRAGE IV A/B

ATAR 9/6000 kgp
wing area  29 m2
empty weight 6400 kg / 7380 kg
Top speed  MACH 2 à 2.5 / mach 2.5
Ceiling        ? / 18000
Time to climb to 55000 ft / 15000 m. 3"5  / 6'

MIRAGE-IV F" (IV-A with rocket-motor)

Engine ATAR 9 de 6000 kgp + SEPR rocket, 750 kgp
Span    7.60 m
Length 14.50 m
Wing area : 29 m2
Empty weight : 6790 kg
Top speed :mach 2.5
Ceiling: 24000 m
time to climb to 55 000 ft : 3'20

Mirage IV C

2 ATAR 9/6000 kgp
Wing area  43 m2
Take off weight  11010
Top speed 2.9 à 11000 m
ceiling 20000
Time to climb to 55 000 ft 3'20
 

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Offline pometablava

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2006, 05:47:34 am »
Archibald,

Merci Beaucoup!!!!! ;)

Offline Archibald

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Re: Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2006, 03:38:08 am »
Y a pas de quoi :)
The Mirage IVM was an interim variant, a kind of mix between the IVC heavy fighter and the IVA light bomber, on request of the Aeronavale (which wanted nucelar deterrent a la US Navy from a big carrier, the PA-58 Verdun)

Mirage IVM
Single seater
Engines : 2 ATAR 9 de 6000 kgp
Span : 11.75 m
Length: 19.35 m (16.30 m with the...cockpit folded. That's not a joke)
Height : 5.30 m (5 m folded)
Wing area : 70 m2
Take off weight : 9.5 t
MTOW catapulted : 16.5 t
Landing max. weight : de 9.7 à 10.5 t
Mach max. : 2
Ceiling : 20500 m
Time to climb to 40 000ft/12000 m : 1’57

Mirage IVB
Wing area 130 m2
Length 28 m
span 16m
MTOW 57 tons
range 5000 km
top speed mach 2.2


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