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Author Topic: US Army XM1 MBT Comp  (Read 9044 times)

Offline Pioneer

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US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« on: September 14, 2006, 02:45:14 am »
I am looking for the competing design of General Motors Corporation that ran against, and lost to the Chrysler Corporation's Main Battle Tank design of 1973, that would become the now famous 'M1 Abrams MBT'
Pictures, drawings and technical data please if you have it


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Pioneer

Offline smurf

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Re: US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2006, 01:24:39 am »
Hunnicutt has it, but mine is still packed after a move.  If no one else supplies after a day or two, I'll try to find it.

Offline JAZZ

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Re: US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2006, 01:44:18 am »
GMotors MBT

Offline JonCatalan

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Re: US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2006, 07:20:33 am »


AFAIK, the GM version had a conventional diesel engine, as opposed to Chrystler's gas-turbine, and both adopted British chobham.

Offline shokaku

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Re: US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2006, 10:06:11 am »
A front view

Offline smurf

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Re: US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2006, 06:18:17 am »
I have tried to post some info from Hunnicutt 'Abrams' but keep getting 'Internal server error'
I am having problems with coontinual interrupted connection to internet.  Can anyone advise, please?

Offline smurf

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Abrams
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2006, 12:59:46 am »
This is really the XM1 thread, where I can't post pictures

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2006, 01:57:45 pm »
GM XM1, from smurf
"I'm always right except when persuaded otherwise against my better judgement"
                                                             
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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"I'm always right except when persuaded otherwise against my better judgement"
                                                             
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Pyrrhic victory

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Re: US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2008, 03:19:55 pm »
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_v19/ai_4696991/pg_1

Here's a 1987 article from the Washington Monthly entitled "The first Chrysler bail-out; the M1 tank".  It discusses the financial troubles of Chrysler in the 1970s and desperately needed this contract, while GM was decent financial shape.  The Army was set to pick the GM XM1 in 1976 but SecDef Rumsfeld refused to rubber stamp it, and changed the requirement to include the 120mm and turbine engine.  Along with intense lobbying, this helped Chrysler secure the contract. 

As this article was written before the first Persian Gulf war, the popular perception of the Abrams in the press was still that of an Edsel with a helicopter engine in it instead of the God on tracks we've been hearing about for the last 15 or so years.

Offline Pioneer

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Re: US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2008, 05:03:59 pm »
Thanks for this important article and the previous attached pic

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Pioneer

Offline Anderman

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Re: US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2008, 06:17:19 am »
Strange article, the autor should asked himself why germany developed a 120 mm gun for the mbt 70 if the 105 mm was good enough.
And if the 105 mm gun was god enough why replace all the tanks which had them ?

Offline Przezdzieblo

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Re: US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2008, 02:09:18 am »
I cannot stand for the author of that article (interesting and nice find - many thanks!), but 105 mm was considered both proven and with enough punch. In `70s USA just developed new generation of APFSDS ammunition (with DU monobloc penetrator), and had a hope of "new life" of 105 mm gun. Also, there were a ideas (that changed to plans in early `80s) of using 105 mm gun with longer barrel (L/65 instead of L/51). Since circa 1975 German 120 mm gun still was only experiment, and own US experience with smoothboore and APFSDS were not very encouraging to swap to 120 mm. Also, cannot forget about other reasons - national and technical pride, economical issues (need of new licence and ammunition production - and what to do with tons of 105 mm ammo?).
Note in race to arm XM1 there was also British competitor, with their 110 mm and later 120 mm rifled guns.

Offline Anderman

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Re: US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2008, 07:20:04 am »
IIRC the 120 mm smoothbore was the german weapon of choice during the MBT/KPZ 70 project, so it looks this kind of gun was around a long time.

Offline Przezdzieblo

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Re: US Army XM1 MBT Comp
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2008, 08:39:20 am »
Me wrong - 120 mm gun not "experiment", rather "in development stage". German worked with that gun since circa 1965, but it was not ready enough before mid 1970s. It is hard to tell if it was weapon of choice for KPz 70 (and US MBT70) - during development no prototype of that tank was armed with 120 mm smoothbore. Kpz 70 (US-FRG) was dropped for new tank (still called KPz 70 - MBT for 70s) with 105 or 120 mm smoothbore gun (but 152 mm with Shillelagh system still was considered for some time).