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Author Topic: Me209 as a fighter  (Read 5507 times)

Offline Wurger

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Me209 as a fighter
« on: November 15, 2008, 09:50:56 am »
hello guys,

the Messerschmitt Me209 V4, taken from the latest ( at least in Portugal ) "Le Fana de L`aviation", an excellent article by Wolfgang Muhlbauer. Enjoy.

[Admin - please do not upload scanned images from books or mags larger than 600 pixels and be very considerate when scanning images from current periodicals of the author and publisher who need to sell their articles.]

Editions Lariviere site here: http://www.editions-lariviere.fr/site/abonnement.php?prov_id=260

« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 12:29:42 pm by overscan »

Offline Bodmas

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2009, 04:26:27 pm »
This pic would appear to be an illustration of an Me 309 variant, not an Me 209
{The Illustrations are from Wikipedia - not the most reliable source, i know, But try the Messerschmitt section in:

Tony Wood & Bill Gunston (3rd. impression, 1979)
Hitler's Luftwaffe
Salamander Books, UK
[ISBN 0-86101-005-1] }

 They give more or less identical illustrations (Me 309 V1 & V2; Me 209 V1 to V6 & A-series). Note the loop radiator on the nose of the Me 209, similar to that of the Fw 190-D

See also:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5609.0.html
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 05:05:35 pm by Bodmas »

Offline Wurger

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2009, 11:51:47 am »
Sorry Bodmas,

but your wikipedia source missed the Me209R. The were two Me209 lay-outs, as you`l find.

Offline Bodmas

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2009, 04:19:31 pm »
Umm... i tried to cross-reference the Wiki refs with the quoted book - i don't trust much of the info on Wikipedia - and they correlated ok [illustration-wise].
Sure, the pic. you provided has a lot in common with the Wendel Record-Breaker Me 209 (cf. the tailplane) - and i am grateful for the info - but i am skeptical. I'm not knocking your research skills or anything; Wiki was NOT my Primary Source!
That said, I Could be Wrong

Offline sagallacci

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2009, 08:52:34 pm »
The exploded drawing is of a militarized  Me209V4 (has appeared in other pubs too) and the actual machine was dressed up as a operational fighter for some photo propaganda shots. Attempts to do anything useful with the design met with nothing but disappointment.

Offline Bodmas

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2009, 03:38:10 pm »
Thanks for the replies :-\

Offline hesham

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2013, 05:19:09 am »
I can't translate well,


is this Messerschmitt Me.209H a fighter ?.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2013, 05:47:17 am »
"Based on the project for a „new Me 209“ submitted to the RLM during April 1943, the type should be used as conventional fighter
and as high altitude fighter as well. The latter variant would have been fitted, besides from an enlarged wing, with either the DB 603,
the Jumo 213 or the Jumo 222 engines. As the first pattern aircraft (prototype), a Bf 109 G-3 was converted. The Me 209 HV 1
(registration SP+EG, serial number 16281) was equipped with the eigth prototype of the DB 628. First flights can be verified for the
beginning of 1943 in Augsburg. On the 8th of May 1944 the aircraft was taken over by Daimler-Benz in Echterdingen. From August 1943,
the Me 209 V 1 was equipped with the DB 628 V 20 and the enlarged fin of the Bf 109 V 50. This aircraft was mainly used for tests of the
tail assembly of the Me 209 at the end of 1943. The prototype was destroyed during an air raid on Stuttgart-Echterdingen on the 14th of
August 1944. Then the whole Me 209 program had already been stopped by GFM (Generalfeldmarschall) Milch on the 25th of May 1944
with agrrement by Hermann Göring , because of the imminent introduction of the Me 262."

Interesting article with several precise dates an incidents, that should make a verification relatively easy. Where is it from ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline carsinamerica

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2013, 01:00:26 pm »
From Hitchcock (Messerschmitt O-Nine Gallery), p. 101:

"The RLM advised Messerschmitt to expedite development of a high altitude fighter by incorporating Me 209H systems directly into the Bf 109H program (see p. 92). Messerschmitt complied, but continued construction of the Me 209H V1, albeit on a low priority basis. Accordingly, early in 1943 a design was advanced based on the Me P.1091a resulting in the Me 209H. Although it was not fitted to the Me 209H V1, the DB 627B [I think this should be DB628 based on other references Hitchcock makes] was selected. Delays protracted its completion until June 1944, and by this time the Me 209 and the DB 627 programs had been cancelled. Therefore, the Me 209H V1 was completed with a DB 603G (similar to the DB 627 but lacking after-cooler and two-stage mechanical supercharger)."

So, there was the Me 209 V1 through V4 (the record-breaker), with the V4 being the proposed fighter.
Then followed the Me 309
Then the revised Me 209, usually called the Me 209-II.
Then the RLM wanted a high-altitude variant of the 209-II. It sounds, though, that the 209H was really a continuation of the stretched Bf 109 program (P.1091a), and only used some systems architecture from the 209A.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 01:10:52 pm by carsinamerica »

Offline Taranov

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2013, 01:27:26 pm »
V4 scale plans from AJ-Press book

Offline Taranov

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2013, 01:30:12 pm »
V5 scale plans, source same

Offline sienar

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2013, 03:03:18 pm »
From Hitchcock (Messerschmitt O-Nine Gallery), p. 101:

"The RLM advised Messerschmitt to expedite development of a high altitude fighter by incorporating Me 209H systems directly into the Bf 109H program (see p. 92). Messerschmitt complied, but continued construction of the Me 209H V1, albeit on a low priority basis. Accordingly, early in 1943 a design was advanced based on the Me P.1091a resulting in the Me 209H. Although it was not fitted to the Me 209H V1, the DB 627B [I think this should be DB628 based on other references Hitchcock makes] was selected. Delays protracted its completion until June 1944, and by this time the Me 209 and the DB 627 programs had been cancelled. Therefore, the Me 209H V1 was completed with a DB 603G (similar to the DB 627 but lacking after-cooler and two-stage mechanical supercharger)."

So, there was the Me 209 V1 through V4 (the record-breaker), with the V4 being the proposed fighter.
Then followed the Me 309
Then the revised Me 209, usually called the Me 209-II.
Then the RLM wanted a high-altitude variant of the 209-II. It sounds, though, that the 209H was really a continuation of the stretched Bf 109 program (P.1091a), and only used some systems architecture from the 209A.


The picture posted at the start of this thread is of the Me 209V14, or at least that it what it is labl[/size]e[/size]d in this document.

According to an issue of Le Fana de L'Aviation this variant was proposed to the [/size]R[/size]LM in November of 1939. If you look at the drawing you can see many differences from the earlier 209s, as well as simularites to the later 309 and 209 developments.
[/size]
Source of this pic is Me-209 by David Myhra
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 03:05:53 pm by sienar »

Offline Taranov

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2013, 10:06:47 pm »
Me-209H with DB 628 engine, project.
Source same - AJ-Press book

Offline Taranov

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2013, 10:12:52 pm »
Me-209H, source same

Offline Taranov

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Re: Me209 as a fighter
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2013, 10:15:44 pm »
Me-209V6, source same