Register here

Author Topic: Chinese Stealth Bomber?  (Read 15725 times)

Offline frank

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 595
Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« on: May 21, 2006, 12:09:41 pm »

    Seeing all of the wonderful info on the PRC's J-9 & J-11 & the like got me curious. Off & on I've seen refs to a stealth bomber the PRC's supposed to be developing & said to be similar to the F-117, for some reason the designation B-9 or H-9 rings a bell.

Offline Deino

  • Our China Correspondent
  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 1751
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2006, 01:21:42 pm »
Sorry to disappoint You (and me too) but, as far as we (or at least I) know there was nothing like that !

Everything written about a possible Chinese F-117 clone, counterpart or what-else is false (even or especially as FAS.org tells You  :D)  ! there have been several attempts or maybe even studies for a future bomber, but nothing came to fruition:

What is known from one small grainy picture and an early concept drawing is that it was equipped with two Spey 512s replacing the standard WP-8 in the wing root-nacelles fed by redesigned smaller diameter circular intakes and two additional Spey 512s in slim underwing nacelles. Not much has been revealed to the public of this improved version called  H-6I  but it seems that the initial design took place during 1971 leading to a first flight on January 1977 (some suggesting 1978).

....
« Last Edit: May 21, 2006, 01:28:11 pm by Deino »
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline Deino

  • Our China Correspondent
  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 1751
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2006, 01:25:13 pm »
Another step further was the development of the H-8 which was suggested even before the H-6I program had started. The main reason for that completely new design was the still limited weapon load and range, which prevented the H-6 from being used in the long-range strategic mission. As a result the PLAAF requested for the development of a long-range bomber for which the Aeronautical Engineering Department Institute 603 got its order on 23rd March 1970 to begin development.

Different concepts were studied each with a different Powerplant or number of engines but the main design itself was borrowed from the H-6 enlarged and aerodynamically refined. All concepts we know so far featured mid-mounted sweepback wings and a Tu-16-like tail arrangement. The fuselage comprised front and rear electronic compartments with a large bomb-bay (8.6 m  1.8 m  2.72 m) in the centre of the aircraft which is found in between two internal fuel tanks. The attack munitions consist of 1-3 air-to-ground missiles. The bomb-bays maximum capability was 18 tons and 100-9,000 kg of stores could be hung under the wings. Self-defence ranges from onboard cannons to rockets to ECM systems. The crew consisted of six people with the front compartment providing space for the pilot, co-pilot, navigator and radar navigator, whereas the rear compartment provided room for the gunner and a radio communicator.

The main onboard systems include third generation navigation/bombing systems and Type 414 radar guided landing system. Wingspan was to be 46.47 m and the length 48.50 m.
The H-8 was to be powered by four Type 910 turbofan engines, each with a thrust of 107.9 kN or as a backup plan six 6 JT-3D-3B turbofan engines, each rated at 80 kN in airliner-style nacelles. It seems that studies even included a much larger bomber looking featuring a non-circular fuselage with a Tu-95-like tail powered by six turbofan engines of an unknown kind which looked like the one on that concept drawing.

In the end only the H-6I reached the test-flight stage and was finally abandoned like the H-8. Filling the capability gap was once again the task of another H-6As upgraded to new versions.

After that latest H-8 there were several rumors about a supersonic H-9 sometimes described similar to a Tu-22 or Tu-135 and even the Sukhoi T-4, but (for my opinion) these are all rumors and all published pictures are misinterpreted Russian or Soviet wind-tunnel models. Latest considerations suggest that there may have been studies without any H-x designation and the PLAAF still soldieres on only with improved H-6 versions until a possible replacement (maybe the Su-32FN/Su-34) can replace them.

Cheers, Deino

PS: Wellcome on board here and ... as for posting pictures; just click on "Additional Options" below the standard "text field" !!
« Last Edit: May 21, 2006, 01:29:33 pm by Deino »
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 7985
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2006, 12:04:03 am »
I think the F-117 copy story was started by a Chinese announcement (around 1992 I think) that they had mastered stealth technology and flown a prototype.
"I'm always right except when persuaded otherwise against my better judgement"
                                                             
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Matej

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 2613
  • Multiuniversal creator
    • Hitechweb - bizare aviation
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 01:26:08 pm »
Pure fantasy and nothing more but if that satisfy you...   ;D

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline Deino

  • Our China Correspondent
  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 1751
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2006, 12:31:17 pm »
As there are still several rumours or discussions about a possible future bomber, which could replace the H-6 I just had an idea if this be a suggestion of a feasible Chinese replacement for the H-6 ?? ???

Its one of several studies from Boeing during the early days of the ATB-project, which led to the B-2 and I was quite surprised how simple and conventional this study was.   :o

Source: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/foru...hp?topic=602.0

Any ideas or comments ! With the technology capabilities of today this should be possible ....

Cheers, Deino
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline TinWing

  • What-if addict
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 864
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2006, 12:42:56 pm »

Any ideas or comments ! With the technology capabilities of today this should be possible ....

Cheers, Deino


This design study looks like the antithesis of the B-1.  Not surprising, when you consider that the B-1 met with some very convincing budgetary arguement in the Carter administration.

This very conventional concept appears to have a boost engine in the tail for takeoffs, just like later versions of the Trident.  Perhaps the canard are a concession to takeoff performance, or perhaps Boeing invisioned this as a low-level platform like the B-1.  I'm not sure what the engines are, but if you take the caption literally, the JT8D-200 series was about the only "medium bypass" engine at the time.  The whole thing looks like it is slightly larger than a first generation 737.

Offline Matej

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 2613
  • Multiuniversal creator
    • Hitechweb - bizare aviation
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2006, 12:49:45 pm »
China needs to replace H-6 with something, but it heavily depends on tasks you want to satisfy with the new bomber. If the main purpose is to launch cruise missiles or some sort of stand-off weapons, then yes, it is enoug to satisfy your needs. But if the task is to penetrate enemy airspace and attack defended targets with something similar to JDAM, with this design it is nearly impossible. One single SAM will shoot it down.

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline TinWing

  • What-if addict
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 864
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2006, 03:01:02 pm »
China needs to replace H-6 with something, but it heavily depends on tasks you want to satisfy with the new bomber. If the main purpose is to launch cruise missiles or some sort of stand-off weapons, then yes, it is enoug to satisfy your needs. But if the task is to penetrate enemy airspace and attack defended targets with something similar to JDAM, with this design it is nearly impossible. One single SAM will shoot it down.

Are you forgetting recent history?

In recent conflicts, bomber forces have seen absolutely no attrition due to enemy air defenses.  The biggest problem these days is finding  platform with enough range to reach the enemy and to loiter over his territory.

Low observability is desirable but not absolutely essential.

Offline Matej

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 2613
  • Multiuniversal creator
    • Hitechweb - bizare aviation
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2006, 03:52:33 pm »
I just considered targets against which can China fight - Taiwan, Japan, Russia, South Korea... Nothing easy - all heavily defended  ;) Maybe Tibet is the easy target, but you dont need to use bombers against monks on donkeys.  ;D They dont need B-2, but something like B-1B - thats my opinion.

Bizarre aviation expert.

avatar

  • Guest
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2008, 11:53:07 am »

Online flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 6902
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2008, 12:44:11 pm »
Yes.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline XP67_Moonbat

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1473
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2008, 01:38:26 pm »
Matej,

Where did you find the fantasy Chinese stealth at? I might be fantasy but it still looks good anyway.
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline Just call me Ray

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 680
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2008, 02:39:05 pm »
China needs to replace H-6 with something

I just considered targets against which can China fight - Taiwan, Japan, Russia, South Korea... Nothing easy - all heavily defended  ;) Maybe Tibet is the easy target, but you dont need to use bombers against monks on donkeys.  ;D

Maybe we need to remember the realities of what the geopolitical situation is, and maybe we don't need China to replace the H-6, if you get what I mean.
It's a crappy self-made pic of a Lockheed Unmanned Combat Armed Rotorcraft (UCAR), BTW
Even Saddam realized the hazard of airplanes, and was discovered hiding in a bunker.
- Skydrol from Airliners.net

Offline Matej

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 2613
  • Multiuniversal creator
    • Hitechweb - bizare aviation
Re: Chinese Stealth Bomber?
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2008, 01:06:22 pm »
http://www.cnet.com/8301-13639_1-9894658-42.htm

Bullshit?

Funny that this "bomber" looks more like heavily armored tank. Who did this fantasy CG images should draw it also thinner. It is much more fat than it shoud be.

Quote
Where did you find the fantasy Chinese stealth at? I might be fantasy but it still looks good anyway.

Huh, difficult to answer - a lot of time ago. The hightest probability goes to art, published somewhere on the aviation forum (Abovetopsecret? Key-publishing?)

Bizarre aviation expert.