Register here

Recent Posts

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10
Designation Systems / Re: Supermarine type designations
« Last post by hesham on February 19, 2017, 01:01:34 pm »
Great work Schneiderman,thanks.
Designation Systems / Re: Supermarine type designations
« Last post by Schneiderman on February 19, 2017, 12:02:51 pm »
Batch #

Type 500 Proposed variant of type 392
Type 501 Spitfire Experimental for powerplant development
Type 502 Spitfire T.8 two seat trainer
Type 503 Sea Otter civil conversion
Type 504 S.14/44 ASR Griffon powered civil project
Type 505 Naval undercarriageless Fighter
Type 506 Seafire F.III conversions for Irish Air Corp
Type 507 Walrus II conversions for Amsterdam (Whaling)
Type 508 Single seat, twin jet interceptor to N.9/47 (based on Type 505, VX133)
Type 509 Spitfire T.9 two seat trainer, converted MkVIII and IX
Type 510 To E.41/46 (Swept wing Attacker – VV106 named Swift)

Type 511 RAF Night Fighter to MOS Spec F.44/46
Type 512 allocated to technical office
Type 513 Attacker to E.1/45, wider intakes and repositioned wing (TS416)
Type 514 E.10/44 Mod, Nene 2
Type 515  Attacker Mk.II with D.H. Ghost engine
Type 516 Naval Attacker, external stores
Type 517 Type 510 with variable incidence tailplane
Type 518 Spitfire F.XVIII trainer
Type 519 Attacker fitted with jet deflection - and swept wing (later)
Type 520 Projected conversion of second Type 510 to operational fighter
Type 521 Attacker fuselage modified as per Type 510 for crescent wing – HP88
Type 522 Single seat twin-engined strike aircraft (Conversion of N.9/47 aircraft to meet Naval Air Staff requirement NR/A19)
Type 523 Twin engine interceptor fighter F.3/48, Type 508 development with swept back surfaces
Type 524 Marine Reconnaissance Flying Boat
Type 525 To N.9/47 with swept wings (based on Type 508)
Type 526 Type 525 with back-swept wings – interceptor version to F.3/48 requirements
Type 527 Proposed Attacker variant with Avon or Tay engine
Type 528 Type 517 modified (VV119)
Type 529 N.9/47 developed (VX136)

Type 530 Seagull ASR.I
Type 531 Proposed modifications to types 510 and 528
Type 532 E.41/46 development with Ghost engine
Type 533 34mm recoiless Vickers cannon
Type 534
Type 535 Swift (Developed Type 510 with nosewheel) RAF and Australian versions
Type 536
Type 537 Back-swept N.9/47 conversion
Type 538 Attacker for Pakistan
Type 539 Trainer version, N.9/47 and variants
Type 540
Type 541 Swift F1 – F3
Type 542 Attacker on floats
Type 543 Undercarriageless fighter
Type 544 Scimitar F1
Type 545 Swift development
Type 546 Swift F.4
Type 547 Swift two-seat, for trainer and night fighter
Type 548 Interim naval Swift
Type 549 Swift FR.5
Type 550 Swift PR.6
Type 551 Swift F2 (WK199)
Type 552 Swift F.VII
Type 553 Supersonic fighter to ER.134T
Type 554 Advanced Jet trainer, two-seat Type 545
Type 555 Third Scimitar prototype with lift augmentation
Type 556 All-weather fighter Scimitar to N.139P
Type 557 Swift trainer
Type 558 To MOS Spec N.113P Mk.2 (Scimitar)
Type 559 Supersonic fighter with canards to GOR 339/ F.155T
Type 560  De-navalised Scimitar (51st production aircraft)

Type 561  Scimitar atomic strike aircraft
Type 562 Single seat Interceptor and strike development of Scimitar
Type 563 De-navalised Scimitar for Swiss AF
Type 564 Revision of type 562
Type 565 Scimitar tactical bomber development for RAF to GOR.339
Type 566 Scimitar strike variant for Navy
Type 567 Single and two-seat Scimitar strike aircraft for Navy
Type 568
Type 569 Guided powered bomb for V-bombers
Type 570
Type 571 Submission to GOR 339 requirement (TSR2)
Type 572  Denavalised Scimitar for RAF
Type 573 quarter-scale delta wing experimental aircraft for ER.197D Spec.
Type 574 Scimitar project
Type 575 Scimitar for the Royal Canadian Airforce
Type 576 Supersonic single seat Scimitar with rocket boost
Type 577 Supersonic strike aircraft
Type 579 Number allocated to English Electric-built pre-production TSR.2
Type 580
Type 581 VG strike aircraft for OR.346 & ER.206/4
Type 582 Twin fuselage strike aircraft for OR.346
Type 583 VG naval strike fighter for OR.346 & AW.406
Type 584 VSTOL strike a/c for OR.346 & NBMR.3
Type 585 Naval derivative of type 584 dev. as single-engined close support
Type 586 Mach 2 VG airliner
Type 587 Mach 2 VG airliner
Type 588 VG research aircraft
Type 589 VG research aircraft, demilitarized type 590 for OR.346
Type 590 Strike aircraft, production version of type 589 to OR.346
Type 591 High Mach number development of type 589 for OR.355
Type 592 bomber ?
Type 593 Small experimental VG aircraft
Type 594 Preston TSR.2 production
Type 595 TSR2 trainer
Type 596
Type 597
Type 598
Type 599 advanced fighter project
Designation Systems / Re: Supermarine type designations
« Last post by Schneiderman on February 19, 2017, 11:55:31 am »
Batch #2

Type 300 F.7/30 development (early designs, prototype Spitfire and Spitfire I)
Type 301 Floats for Vickers Vincent

Type 302 Four engine flying boat for Imperial Airways
Type 303 R.24/31 Scapa development
Type 304 Stranraer development – Canadian Vickers production
------------ Heavy bomber landplane to AM spec. B.1/35 (design study, no Type number project)
Type 305 Two seater day and night fighter AM spec. F.9/35
Type 306 Flying Boat for Imperial Airways transatlantic passenger service
Type 307 Seagull V – Pegasus VI
Type 308 Long range flying boat to AM spec. R.12/35
Type 309 Sea Otter
Type 310 Long range flying boat
Type 311 Spitfire, version uncertain
Type 312 Single seat day and night fighter to AM spec. F.37/35
Type 313 Single seat day and night fighter to AM spec. F.37/35
Type 314 High performance flying boat to AM spec. R.1/36
Type 315 Walrus for Argentina
Type 316 Heavy Bomber to AM spec. B.12/36
Type 317 Heavy Bomber to AM spec. B.12/36 – Hercules engines (originally under Type 316, construction abandoned)
Type 318 Heavy Bomber to AM spec. B.12/36 – Merlin engines
Type 319 2 seat fighter
Type 320 Walrus for Turkey
Type 321 Mark IV gun turret (as proposed for Type 316 bomber)
Type 322 Aircraft to AM spec. S.24/37 (see Type 380 ‘Dumbo’)
Type 323 Speed Spitfire (for attempt on air speed record for landplanes)
Type 324 Fighter to AM spec. F.18/37
Type 325 Fighter to AM spec. F.18/37
Type 326 Walrus development  - Pegasus VI
Type 327 High speed single seat cannon gun fighter
Type 328 Flying boat to AM spec. R.5/39
Type 329 Spitfire Mk II
Type 330 Spitfire Mk III (N3927 & W3237)
Type 331 Spitfire Mk VB

Type 332 Spitfire with FN guns (for Estonia)
Type 333 Two seat fleet fighter to AM spec. N.8/39
Type 334 To S.6/39
Type 335 Spitfire I for Greece
Type 336 Spitfire I for Portugal
Type 337 Spitfire F IV (DP845)
Type 338 Spitfire I for Fleet Air Arm
Type 339 Single Seat Fleet Air Arm fighter NAD 925/39 (in Morgan & Shacklady?)
Type 340 Seafire F.IB
Type 341 Spitfire I for Turkey
Type 342 Spitfire FI on floats (Blackburn Roc)
Type 343 Spitfire I with long range tanks
Type 344 Floats for Spitfire I
Type 345 Spitfire I with 13.2mm guns
Type 346 Spitfire I C-wing with 20mm guns
Type 347 Fleet Air Arm ABR aircraft to Spec. S.12/40 (became Seagull)
Type 348 Spitfire III 2nd prototype (W3237)
Type 349 Spitfire VC
Type 350 Spitfire VI
Type 351 Spitfire VII
Type 352 Spitfire VB tropical conversion

Type 353 Spitfire PR.IV
Type 354 - Spitfire development
Type 355 Spitfire F.V Special (W3760)
Type 356 Spitfire F.21/22/24
Type 357 Seafire F.IIC
Type 358 Seafire F.III
Type 359 Spitfire VIII
(prototype JF299)
Type 360 Spitfire VIID & VIII
Type 361 Spitfire IX & XVI
Type 362 Spitfire PR.X

Type 363 Tropical Spitfire – Griffon IIB
Type 364 Tropical Spitfire – Griffon 61
Type 365 Spitfire PR.XI
Type 366 Spitfire F XII
Type 367 Spitfire PR. XIII

Type 368 Spitfire F.VIII with Malinoswski wing (to be built be Heston)
Type 369 Spitfire F.XIV
Type 370 Spitfire PR.XI tropical
Type 371 Spiteful to F.1/43
Type 372 Spitfire F.VIII with semi-laminar wing
Type 373 Spitfire XIV with contra-prop (BP851)
Type 374 Spitfire PR.XI (MK XI conversion)
Type 375 Spitfire LF.IIC
Type 376 Spitfire VIII with contra-prop
Type 377 Seafire F.XV (NS485)
Type 378 Spitfire F.IX tropical
Type 379 Spitfire F.XIV
Type 380 To S.24/37 ‘Dumbo’
Type 381 Seagull to S.12/40 (PA143)
Type 382 Seafang 31/32 (VG471)
Type 383 Spiteful
Type 384 Seafire F.XVII
Type 385 Spitfire IX on floats (MJ892)
Type 386 Seafire XV (cut-down rear fuselage)
Type 387 Seafire PR.X – pressurised cockpit
Type 388 Seafire F.45 – 47
Type 389 Spitfire PR.XIX
Type 390 Spitfire PR.XIX – pressurised cockpit

Type 391 High Performance Aeroplane for the Royal Navy
Type 392 Attacker to E.10/44 (prototype TS409)
Type 393 Spiteful F.XIV
Type 394 Spitfire F and PR.XVIII

Type 395 Seafire F.XVIII
Type 396 Seafang F.32
Type 397 Attacker for export
Type 398 Attacker F.1 / FB.2 to E.1/45
Type 399 Sea Otter ASR.II

Type 400 – 499 are Vickers projects
Designation Systems / Re: Supermarine type designations
« Last post by Schneiderman on February 19, 2017, 11:45:00 am »
Post-Vickers take-over, batch #1

Joint Supermarine / Vickers project

Type 171 Southampton Mark X (military and civil versions. Originally Project A)

Type 172 -177 are Vickers Aviation projects

Type 178 00 Sea Hawk 3 engined civil flying boat
Type 178 00 Sea Hawk 3 engined amphibian flying boat
Type 178 00 3-engined civil amphibian flying boat
Type 178 01 Civil mail carrier
Type 178 02 Single engined bomber & reconnaissance amphibian
Type 178 03 Twin-engined air mail boat
Type 178 04 Twin engine Southampton flying boat
Type 178 05 Twin engine flying boat
Type 178 06 Sea Hawk
Type 178 07 Southampton IV (became Type 221)
Type 178 08 Proposal to reduce landing speed
Type 178 09 High performance day bomber
Type 178 10 Single seat day and night fighter (biplane and monoplane)
Type 178 11 3-engined monoplane flying boat
Type 178 12 Single seat biplane day and night fighter
Type 178 14 Single seat monoplane day and night fighter (became Type 224)
Type 179 Six engined flying boat to AM spec. 20/28  ( 3 designs, construction cancelled)
Type 180 4 engined civil flying boat (two designs)
Type 181 Amphibian flying boat for the RAAF & civil
Type 182 General purpose commercial high-wing monoplane
Type 183 General purpose commercial low-wing monoplane
Type 184 Southampton II (R-R Kestrels and metal wings)
Type 185 Southampton X (mod. with Bristol Jupiters)
Type 186 S6a (Schneider Trophy racer, refurbished S6 with new floats)
Type 187 S6b (Schneider Trophy racer)

Type 188 Southampton X modified with cockpit canopy
Type 189 Southampton II modified with Bristol Jupiters
Type 190 Southampton II export versions; Turkey etc

Type 191 – 220 are Vickers Aviation projects
Type 221 Southampton IV (prototype Scapa)
Type 222 Floats for Vickers Vildebeest
Type 223 Seagull V single engine amphibian flying boat (prototype)
Type 224 Single seat monoplane day and night to AM spec. F.7/30

Type 225 Single engine civil amphibian flying boat (civil Seagull V)
Type 226 Scapa (production)
Type 227 Southampton V to AM spec. R.24/31 (early Stranraer)
Type 228 Seagull V (production)
Type 229 Scapa with experimental stainless steel wing spars
Type 230 Southampton V/Stranraer
Type 231 Twin engine bomber transport to AM spec. C.26/31
Type 232 Four engine boat seaplane to AM spec. R.2/33
Type 233 Southampton II for Turkey, Hispano-Suiza 12Nbr engines
Type 234 Southampton II for Turkey, Hispano-Suiza 12Nbr engines

Type 235 Scapa with Napier Culverin diesel engines
Type 236 Walrus
Type 237 Stranraer (production and projected civil adaptation)
Type 238 Biplane boat seaplane to AM spec. R.2/33
Type 239 Four engine boat seaplane to AM spec. R.2/33
Type 240 Twin engine coastal reconnaissance landplane

Type 241 – 299 are Vickers Aviation projects
Designation Systems / Re: Supermarine type designations
« Last post by Schneiderman on February 19, 2017, 11:40:29 am »
I pulled everything we have so far into one list. Starting with the projects and aircraft pre-Vickers that did not have Type numbers.
Bold is for aircraft that were constructed,
Italics are for projects where I have not seen official Supermarine drawings, just references in books etc and also listed on this thread

   A.D Flying Boat
   A.D Navy Plane

   PB31e ‘Night Hawk’
   Patrol Machine (seaplane)
   SS1 – Slipwing flying boat bomber (PB31 in Pemberton Billing’s book)
   Baby (N1B) Flying Boat
   Type A, S.S. Flying Boat (Single seat, high performance)
   Type B, 3-seater flying boat, twin engine (for training)
   Type C, 4 seater passenger flying boat, ‘Channel Type’
   Type D, 3-engined triplane flying boat, ‘Dolphin’
   Sea Lion - Schneider Trophy racing flying boat (based on S.S Flying Boat)
   Triplane flying boat, ‘Shark’ (civil and military versions)
   Single seater flying boat (Baby with S.S. Flying Boat wings)
   Sea King (single seater flying boat with Baby wings)
   Channel II, 4-seater
   Amphibian (Commercial Amphibian)
   Single seater fighting scout and bomber
   Single seat ship’s flying boat
   Amphibian flying boat for ship work (two seats)
   ‘Seal’ Type Mk II
   Fleet gunnery spotting amphibian (three seat)
   Torpedo carrier flying boat (Triplane)
   ‘Swan’ 7-seater commercial amphibian flying boat
   Sea King II
   Single seat fighter flying boat for ship use
   7-seater commercial flying boat
   Commercial amphibian flying boat for Instone
   School amphibian flying boat
   School amphibian flying boat (3 seat, based on Channel)
   Channel Type flying boat – Reconnaissance and Survey machine
   Seagull amphibian flying boat
   Scylla flying boat torpedo carrier (partially completed for taxiing trials only)
   8-seat commercial amphibian
   Amphibian flying boat, training and school machine
   Bomber amphibian flying boat
   Twin-engined bomber amphibian flying boat
   4 seat commercial amphibian flying boat
   Twin-engined commercial amphibian flying boat (early design for the Swan)
   Sea Lion II (Sea King II re-engined as Schneider Racer)
   ‘Swan’ Twin-engined civil amphibian flying boat
   Sea Eagle
   Amphibian flying boat for long distance work with crew of three modified for round the world flight (two designs)
   3-seat amphibian flying boat (enclosed cockpit and alternative ski undercarriage)
   Amphibian flying boat service bomber type (based on Sea Eagle)
   3-engined flying boat to AM spec 9/23
   Sheldrake type amphibian flying boat service bomber type
   Sea Lion III (Sea Lion II modified for 1923 Schneider Trophy)
   Sea Urchin high performance flying boat (proposed Schneider Trophy racer)
   Commercial and general service amphibian flying boat (civil Sheldrake)
   Service bomber type amphibian flying boat (Scarab)
   Twin engine flying boat converted to armed reconnaissance (modified Swan)
   Amphibian flying boat proposed new fleet spotter (two designs)
   Service type twin engine flying boat (two designs)
   ‘Sparrow’ two-seater aeroplane
   Southampton twin-engined flying boat
   Twin engine amphibian flying boat (two designs)
   Single-seater high performance seaplane (early S4)
   ‘Shark’ twin-engine flying boat (Southampton type)
   ‘Swan’ MkII twin-engine amphibian flying boat
    S4 seaplane (Schneider Trophy racer)
   ‘Condor’ light bomber amphibian
   Southampton II (metal hull)
   ‘Southampton’ twin engine flying boat for civil purposes
   ‘Australian Seagull’ amphibian flying boat (Seagull III)
   3-engined flying boat-Southampton development (two designs)
   Solent/Nanok FBVII torpedo bomber
   S5 seaplane (Schneider Trophy racer)
   Sparrow II two-seater aeroplane (Sparrow modified as a monoplane)
   Twin-engine flying boat for civil purposes (civil Southampton)
   ‘Solent’ 3-engined flying boat for civil purposes (two designs)
   Single seat fleet fighter to AM spec. 21/26 (three designs)
   3-engined flying boat to AM spec 4/27 (biplane)
   3-engined flying boat to AM spec 4/27 & air yacht (monoplane)
   S6 seaplane (Schneider Trophy racer. Project C)
   Flying boat 6 Napier XI engines
   Seamew – single Napier Lion or Bristol Jupiter engine
   3-engine monoplane Air Yacht (Project B )
   3-engine monoplane civil flying boat (based on 4/27 monoplane)
   Six engined flying boat to AM spec.R.6/28 (Project D)
   Twin engine flying boat – Hispano Suiza engines (three designs)
   Twin engined fleet spotter to AM spec. 9/30
   4 engined civil amphibian
   4 engined monoplane flying boat
Designation Systems / Re: BAC Designation System
« Last post by ursrius on February 19, 2017, 11:15:28 am »
...and on second thoughts about P.130 to P.173, that could also be HSA Brough, with P.139 to P.183 being used after Blackburn's numbering system became part of HSA. After P.183 it became integrated with the Kingston (ex-Hawker) system

As for the EAG numbers, this from BSP 4 "The EAG nomenclature describes drawings English Electric produced as part of design studies.....The number can refer to a specific drawing or block of drawings rather than a particular project. They are sequential and continue in BAE Systems to date." Now, wouldn't that be a fascinating list to find!

BSP 5, and to a lesser extent BSP 4, have quite a few EAG numbers listed, belonging either to the P.42 hypersonic vehicle studies (started under English Electric) or the MUSTARD spaceplane. Below is what I have that are specifically BAC; earlier numbers, as seen in the original drawings in BSP 5, are English Electric:

 EAG.4432Mach 4 booster with 3 flashjets
 EAG.4433   Recoverable research vehicle
 EAG.4434   BAC drawing of the Douglas (USA) Astro Spaceplane
 EAG.4435   P.42   Mach 4 booster, kerosene fueled
 EAG.4436   8 space module studies
 EAG.4437   Mustard (Scheme 1)    2S, 1E rocket powered space module
 EAG.4438   4E mach 4 booster
 EAG.4441   P.42   2S, 2E reconnaissance aircraft
 EAG.4442    Mustard (Scheme 3)    2S, 3E rocket powered space module   
 EAG.4444   8E Mustard launcher aircraft
 EAG.4445   Mustard (Scheme 3) 3-ship cluster
 EAG.4446   P.42   5E spaceplane booster aircraft   
 EAG.4450    Mustard (Scheme 4)    5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module   
 EAG.4453   6E mach 7 spaceplane booster aircraft
 EAG.4454    Mustard (Scheme 5)    5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
 EAG.4455    1S Mustard low speed glider
 EAG.4456   1E Mach 10 VTO cruise vehicle.
EAG.4458    2E high speed vehicle.
 EAG.4459   2E high speed vehicle.
 EAG.????   4E mach 4 aircraft (possibly EAG.4450)   
 EAG.4461    CREST    Mustard test vehicle
 EAG.4462    CREST    Mustard test vehicle
 EAG.4463    Mustard (Scheme 6)    5S, 3E (1 aerospike, 2 turbojet) space module
 EAG.4464   1E Mustard expendable booster.
 EAG.4465    Mustard (Scheme 7)    5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
 EAG.4466    Mustard (Scheme 7) 4-ship stack
 EAG.4467    Mustard (Scheme 7) 3-ship cluster
 EAG.4468   Liquid hydrogen powered aircraft   
 EAG.4470    Mustard (Scheme 8)    5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
 EAG.4471    Mustard (Scheme 9)    5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
 EAG.4472    Mustard (Scheme 10)    5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
 EAG.4473    Mustard (Scheme 11)    5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
 EAG.4474    Mustard (Scheme 12)    5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
 EAG.4475   3S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) orbital recce plane
 EAG.4476    Mustard (Scheme 13)    5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
 EAG.4477    Mustard (Scheme 14)    5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
 EAG.4478    Mustard (Scheme 15)    5S, 5E (4 rocket, 1 turbojet) space module
 EAG.4479    5S, 5E (4 rocket, 1 turbojet) space module   
 EAG.4483    Mustard (Scheme 15)    5S, 5E (4 rocket, 1 turbojet) space module
 EAG.4484    Mustard (Scheme 15)    5S, 5E (4 rocket, 1 turbojet) space module
Avionics / Marconi S1844 or T1844 Long Range Radar
« Last post by JFC Fuller on February 19, 2017, 05:43:57 am »
In 1994 concerns around cost began to be raised about the then Thomson-CSF ASTRAL L-band 3D long range surveillance radar for what would become PAAMS but was at the time FAMS/LAMS technical solutions were sought for a potential alternative. Ultimately the S1850M (originally called T1850), referred to as SMARTELLO, was chosen, this being the Signal SMART-L antenna with bit of the Marconi Martello family to increase ECCM capability. However, prior to reaching that point there were other candidates:

1) The originally assumed Thomson-CSF ASTRAL
2) Alenia RAN-32L
3) Signaal SMART-L
4) Marconi T1844

All this comes from Jane's, based on Google books searching. Apparently the Alenia offer did not meet the technical requirements. The Marconi radar is listed variously T1844 or S1844, I can't find any information about it at all, I assume it would have been heavily based on the existing Martello radars? Has anybody got any more information on either the Marconi T1844 or the wider FAMS/LAMS/PAAMS Log Range Radar affair...?
Alternative History and Future Speculation / Alpenfestung 1946 Videogame Questions
« Last post by Stuka_Hunter on February 19, 2017, 02:05:56 am »

I just joined this forum yesterday, mainly because I want to discuss some things about a videogame I am going to make. It takes place in a German Alpine Fortress (alpenfestung) in 1946. I want to ask some questions bothering me about aircraft that could be used in the game. While some are pretty straightforward and logical decisions, some are so radical I dont know if they could be implemented in time.

Note: I Will post questions here when time comes, but for now, only a few questions.

1. In the game, I am planning to use the Blohm & Voss BV 222 flying boats to evacuate injured German soldiers from the Alpenfestung to the Allied port of Trieste. My question: Since a normal BV 222 by my calculations would barely climb over the mountains, I have an idea that four DB 610 coupled engines from dismantled Heinkel He 177 bombers could be used (2 on each wing), equipped with contrarotating propellers. Would this be logical?

2. Could the Messerschmitt Me P.1112 be in the flying prototype stage by May 1946?

3. Could the BMW Strahlbomber II (and with it the BMW 018 turbojet engine) be produced from late 1945 onwards to replace the Arado Ar 234 C?

More questions Will be posted if I have some. Any answer is appreciated.

Kind regards,
Stuka_Hunter  :)
Alternative History and Future Speculation / Q-band Tartar for the RN
« Last post by zen on February 18, 2017, 02:25:11 pm »
Very well since others won't for one reason or another and for completeness sake.....

Q-band Tartar.
And lets be clear that's what the RN want, what is one of the critical elements of their view of the self defence SANM in the era. Getting Q-band (Ka-band and Ku-band) avoids the issues of clutter over water, since the frequency is absorbed by water, obviating the issues of confusing reflections for detection, tracking and illumination for SARH purposes.
It means you can envsion intercepting a missile coming at you, Q-band gives you the definition to see it and see it against the sea.
G-band (as the USN used) doesn't.

This starts with Popsy A, goes to Red Hawk aka Popsy B, moved on to Meteor aka Mopsy in the hopes the US would fund it (since they were funding Meteor). When they dropped Meteor, in comes Tartar, aka single stage Terrier.
Orange Nell is the RN trying to carry on with what they see as the solution, and planning for the worst in the light of the length of time it's taking to get Sea Slug into service. Cosidering that Sea Wolf is the spiritual and institutional successor to Orange Nell (and in turn Mopsy and Popsy), one might say they were right.

Why? Why not just buy Tartar, or better yet license it with their own seeker/TIR system?
Because Dollars are tightly controlled and the RN has at best a limited allocation for things it wants from the US, so Tartar goes and with it it seems hopes of getting a licensed UK version with Q-band.
Because what dollars are available are being spent in nuclear systems, reactors for example for Dreadnought.
Because 'officially' the RN thinks Tartar is "too complex and expensive".
US likely (I'm guessing here but it's a fair speculation) doesn't want the RN fielding a better system than them and likely thinks it's a waste of their efforts.

So let us conjour for some 'yet to be clarified reason' the RN gets more dollars or trades something else away for Q-band Tartar, or somehow persuades the US to help them out here.

The Tribals are the first ships in which Tartar is examined and it's possible the last of these might actually get such a system.
Leanders might gain this at least in limited number.

Logically one would presume then the County's would get Terrier, having some continuity and logistical cross support possible between Terrier and Tartar ships.
Designation Systems / Re: BAC Designation System
« Last post by ursrius on February 18, 2017, 02:11:43 pm »

Thanks. The P.130 to P.173 series would presumably be the Hunting series I mentioned earlier. According to David Gearing in 'On The Wings Of A Gull', after P.119 this series is correctly prefixed 'H'. H130 to H134 were Hunting designs that pre-dated the merger into BAC, while H.135 to H.156 were designs within the BAC time but before the Hunting name disappeared.

BAC's submissions to OR.357, according to Gibson's 'Nimrod's Genesis' were:

A derivative of the Bristol 222, itself a Hercules derivative.
A Bristol Britannia derivative
Many VC.10 variants, including variable sweep and even supersonics.

Gibson gives no indication of type or study numbers applied to these. Did they have any internal designation?

A.1 SST, A.5 SST, E.6 Hypersonic: these were Hawker Siddeley studies, all part of the larger APD.1019 family of advanced projects from Kingston (See BSP4).

Mustard is nicely covered in the new BSP 5 and it comes under the EAG series. As for the EAG series, these were strictly speaking drawing numbers allocated to project studies, starting in the time of English electric and continuing through into BAC. As such, they are not per se part of a designation system, but are most certainly worthy of study in their own right. Many are well covered in BSP 4 and 5.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10