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Theoretical and Speculative Projects / Re: Real or fake
« Last post by Deltafan on Yesterday at 04:13:48 am »

here is a picture to article from Icare magazine,spoke about Henri Coanda's design of flying saucer
fighter Project,I think it was not real, right ?.
As far as I know there were only patents and probably test equipments
Designation Systems / Re: Lockheed L-/CL- project numbers
« Last post by hesham on May 25, 2017, 02:52:35 pm »
Very nice work Petebutt43,thanks.
Alternative History and Future Speculation / Re: us designs for the british forces
« Last post by uk 75 on May 25, 2017, 01:17:15 pm »
Quite agree about Chris's excellent book.
I have to admit it is the 9 year old in me that prefers Tomcats to MRCAs..
The F14 in RAF or RN colours just looks so good...
Designation Systems / Re: RMI -- Hungarian Aircraft Designations
« Last post by c460 on May 25, 2017, 12:04:23 pm »
Hi Hesham,
Please, in what book or magazine did you find this?
Designation Systems / Re: Lockheed L-/CL- project numbers
« Last post by on May 25, 2017, 11:51:54 am »
Journal, American Aviation Historical Society, 1999, Summer: page 102-112, Winter: page 288-297. 2000, Spring: page 53-63

Basic Model Numbers
L-129   high-altitude bomber project competing for Type Specification XC-124 against B-27, B-28
L-136   enlarged version of CONSTELLATION, project @1944
L-137   twin engine bombardment airplane proposal
L-145   commercial transport proposal, DC-3 replacements
L-147   small commercial transport proposals
L-149   appears in some sources for the CONSTELLATION, a probable confusion with the Model 149.
L-151   unbuilt airliner project [not as reported, PTV-A-1 ramjet test vehicle (later X-7)]
L-152   medium size turboprop or turbojet commercial transport proposals
L-153   XP/F-90
L-155   commercial jet-engined transport proposals
L-170   series of projects leading to TP-80C/T-33A SHOOTING STAR
L-171   PTV-A-1 ramjet test vehicle (became X-7) [project MX-883]
L-179   jet-engined commercial transport proposals
L-182   projected ASW version of CONSTITUTION
L-183   USN Specification OS-113 (became XF3H-1), interceptor fighter proposals
L-185   commmercial transport proposals, "DC-3 replacement"
L-185   pre-U-2 high-altitude project?
L-186   jet-engined commercial transport proposals
L-187   USN Specification OS-111 (became XA3D-1), long-range carrier-based bomber proposals
L-188   several projected modifications of the F-97 nee F-94C fighter [and civil demonstrator ?]
L-189   "A specific aircraft was not designed in this preliminary study for ONR, which was a generalized data generation program for carrier based ASW aircraft to be operational in 1956.
L-190   USAF interceptor proposals
L-191   strategic turbojet engine bomber system; a system called "team bombing." Team bombing was to be use of two aircraft-one was to be a manned guide aircraft and the other a remotely controlled bomb carrier that would fly only to the target and then be expendable.
L-192   USN Specification OS-117 (became XS2F-1), anti-submarine warfare airplane proposals
L-195   nuclear engine powered aircraft proposals
L-197   ASW helicopter proposals
L-199   VG-STARFIRE all-weather trainer project
L-200   XFV-1
L-201   commercial transport airplane proposals, DC-3 replacement
L-202   day fighter proposals
L-203   liason aircraft proposals, request of AMC. Tail seater.
L-204   several projected variants of F-94C
L-206   pre-HERCULES development of L-168 project with removable cargo pod (or YC-130??)
L-207   commercial transport proposals, DC-3 reolacement
L-208   XC-Heavy Transport and Parasite/Missile carrier airplane proposals, request of AMC
L-209   parasite bomber airplane proposals
L-210   ground attack fighter proposals
L-212   nuclear engine powered aircraft proposals.
L-227   series of pre-STARFIGHTER projects
L-242   series of pre-STARFIGHTER projects (a "Model 242" was also an F-104 competing against F8U!)
L-330   projected T2V variant
L-330   VZ-10 or XV-4A HUMMINGBIRD VTOL research aircraft
L-331   XV-4B HUMMINGBIRD VTOL research aircraft
L-402   LASA-60 small civil STOL transport (2 ex.,1959); license-built by Lockheed-Azcarate SA in Mexico
L-995   S-3A VIKING
L-1400   AX competitor of YA-9A and YA-10A (L-1400-1/-2) or a variant of the LANCER
CL = Lockheed, California
Temporary Design Numbers
CL-288   intermediate long-range high-speed interceptor project; F-104 with wing-mounted jets
CL-295   variants of study concept for tail-sitting twin-jet fighter with canards (mid-1950s)
CL-303   pre-ELECTRA transport project with high wings
CL-320   intermediate long-range high-speed interceptor project
CL-330   VZ-10A (XV-4A) HUMMINGBIRD (L-331 being the XV-4B)
CL-346   F-104 derivative with wing-mounted jets
CL-351   U-2R (later TR-1) high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft
CL-351   either a STARFIGHTER-related project or as the U-2R (TR-1) DRAGON LADY
CL-407   seven concepts for supersonic (up to Mach 3) VTOL recon and attack aircraft
CL-520   AEW&C P-3 project
CL-595   XH-51A helicopter (Model 186)
CL-635   numerous space study efforts done for NASA (1964)
CL-655   TSTO project
CL-704   VTOL STARFIGHTER derivative with single RB.168R and 14 vertical-mounted RB.181s
CL-800   either a variant of the ELECTRA or a four-jet transport based on the STARLINER
CL-840   AH-56A CHEYENNE assault helicopter for US Army (Model 187) (5 built) @1962
CL-900   either an ORION-related project or an early LANCER project
CL-915   lightweight fighter projects derived from A-12/F-12 series
CL-945   retractoplane design (helicopter with folding rotor blades) (CL-945-400)
CL-1020   TRICEPTS electronic countermeasures modification of SP-2H NEPTUNE
CL-1026   projected civil version of GALAXY with 30 seats
CL-1090   projected civil version of GALAXY with 80 (95?) seats, 36 tons capacity
CL-1400N   LANCER lightweight fighter development proposed to US Navy
CL-1600   used twice, both for the X-27 and for the Tristar Twin project. Lockheed did the same a few other times.
CL-1700   highly manoeuverable tactical ground attack helicopter project (mock-up existed)
CL-1980   projected twin-jet fighter for USAF derived from A-12/F-12 series for F-14 competition (A/N) 1973
GL = Lockheed Georgia
Temporary Design Numbers
GL-207   SUPER HERCULES project
GL-210   version of NEPTUNE for Japanese Navy (found as GK.210, probably by mistake)
GL-224   pre-HUMMINGBIRD project
GL-293   fully VTOL version of HERCULES (GL-293-11)
GL-298   proposed STOL version of HERCULES (GL-298-6/-7)
Theoretical and Speculative Projects / Re: Real or fake
« Last post by Michel Van on May 25, 2017, 11:10:28 am »
This "Varga RMI-11" is part of Alternate History fiction

Here more info
"DOAE studies I've seen at Kew don't seem to look at options, just vanilla F-14/F.2"

Very true and it was a MRCA AD they were looking at as well, which was pretty much what became the F.2.

They were interested in the F-14B with the F401, but it didn't perform. I think the real reason was that having seen the money pit that was the re-engined F-4K/M, the probable spiraling cost of fitting the F-14 with Speys, UK AIR (what became Blue Circle) and Skyflash, put the Air Force Department off the Tomcat.

Mind you the First Sea Lord was keen to have a separate Tomcat unit within the RAF to defend his fleet.

Nice wishlist.


In this context seems churlish not to plug a really excellent book that deals with this subject 😀
"DOAE studies I've seen at Kew don't seem to look at options, just vanilla F-14/F.2"

Very true and it was a MRCA AD they were looking at as well, which was pretty much what became the F.2.

Here's a question for you. Was the MRCA (as such) ever intended for or capable of the airborne interception role? I know it was primarily a strike/interdictor airplane, but was its weapon system capable of interfacing with, launching and successfully guiding AIM-7, either in service or at any time in planning/development? If so, where were they planning to hang the missiles?

Granted, using Tornado IDS in this role would have been suboptimal to say the least (though not as suboptimal as the  F.2 as delivered with "Blue Circle radar"), but could it have been done in extremis? The airplane was, IIRC, quite fast at least on the deck (though doubtless dangling AIM-7's off it would have changed that).
Theoretical and Speculative Projects / Re: Real or fake
« Last post by Silencer1 on May 25, 2017, 07:52:58 am »
Varga RMI-11,is completely a fake aircraft as I think.

And pilotless! ;)
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