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So, before it's demanded, I put this thread in this section.

Thanks for the move. o7


Also, as someone previously mentioned, landings would also be very tricky. Even postwar, there were many landings where airplanes barely hooked on the last wire. So the dream aircraft would need to have the following:

-Low stall speed (~150 km/h), high speed in flight (~450 km/h in level flight, this doesnt apply for recon airplanes) (Ju 87 and Fieseler Fi 167 fail)
-High responsiveness of the engine (all-jet airplanes fail)
-Great visibility (this is where both Fw 190 and Bf 109 fail imo)
-Agility (some versions of Fw 190 were extremely heavy due to armor, reducing agility)
-Strenghtened landing gear and foldable wings (achievable on almost any type)
-Good payload (doesnt apply for recon airplanes as well)

Possible designs that fulfill all or majority of the above mentioned criteria:

-Blohm & Voss P. 194 (asymetry could be effective). If this would be used, BV 141 could be used instead of Fieseler Storch due to same exact piston powerplant as P.194.
-Fieselers Storch (can land almost vertically, doesnt take up alot of space).
-Messerschmitt / Blohm & Voss Me/Bv 155 (as it was designed for carrier service in its early form).
-VTOL designs, like Heinkel Lerche (very Luft 46-ish).

OR

Ask Japan for help.
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The argument about the cradle system is valid, I think, as is the the one about the narrow track of the Bf 109 landing
gear. The Seafire was described as a "great carrier fighter in the air, but it really should have stayed there ...". and
it had principally the same type of landing gear.
The choice of the Bf 109 as the fighter for the GZ was simply based on the availability of this type, as the only
suitable German fighter in that time, the Fw 190 was somewhat later, when it became clear, that one type wasn't enough.
The same is true for the Ju 87, though it may have been better suited to the use on a carrier, than the Bf 109.
The existence of a German carrier task force could indeed have had tremendous impact on the naval situation between
the Kriegsmarine and the RN, but ... probably even two carriers wouldn't have been enough and to think just about one
really means drifting into alternative history. So, before it's demanded, I put this thread in this section.
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The over complicated cradle catapult system would have probably been unreliable in service too.

Graf Zeppelin may have been handy for Bismarck's breakout though, not least for some longer-range reconnaissance and the presence of her small airgroup might well have forced the Admiralty to wait until they had enough surface power to ambush the taskforce after using Victorious and Ark Royal's aircraft to try and sink her first. Even a small number of Bf 109Ts might have made Swordfish attacks tricky but the weather wasn't great and its doubtful there would have been enough fighters to drive off every attack.

Any other time in the war and really a German carrier fleet is just another static target in French or Norwegian ports.
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User Artwork / Re: Unusual Hurricanes
« Last post by hesham on Yesterday at 07:42:37 am »
Hi All;

was there a taxi-trainer Hurricane,with bolt-on instructor seat on the starboard wing ?.
6
Quite agree about Chris's excellent book.
I have to admit it is the 9 year old in me that prefers Tomcats to MRCAs..
The F14 in RAF or RN colours just looks so good...

It's the nine year old in us all which can't understand why you can't just sling a quartet of Phoenix under the wings of an ADV Tornado and head off on an intercept mission with them.

As a matter of fact, the nine year old in me broke down and cried the other day when he read Norman Friedman's Fighters Over the Fleet and found out that not only was the Tomcat (as it existed when I was nine) deeply flawed in some ways,  but that its legendary six-Phoenix warload almost never carried because of performance issues and the missile was actually not that crash-hot at maximum range against a manoeuvering target. In short, the Tomcat's bubble was thoroughly and utterly burst.

"But... but..." he blubbered, and then the tears began and I still don't think he's recovered yet. :D  :P I'm trying to comfort him with the fact that whatever the Tomcat's problems might have been, at least it isn't the F-111B. ;)

Don't worry. The Tomcat will always be better than the MiG 28!
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the fw -190 would be a poor choice in my oppion ,it had poor forward vision and a bouncy undercarriage . the bf-155 would be good enough for the rest of the war after that who knows.for bomber the 87 E would work but if they could get a licence for the d4y that would be better.

Against this, it has a wide track undercarriage that is probably better for carriers.

Ultimately even if they had finished the GZ and her putative sister ship (because one carrier is never enough), I suspect the Germans would have run into severe operational issues - unlike the British, Americans and Japanese, they had no experience or tradition of carrier operations, and even the British might have given them a severe mauling. A GZ afloat with an air group instantly becomes the top-priority high value target for the entire Royal Navy. Skuas to the top of them, Swordflsh and possibly Beauforts all around (she has to go back into dock sometime, after all)... with a small air group, can you hope to stop them all? One lucky Swordfish or Skua might not sink the GZ, but a 500lb AP bomb through the deck is going to put her in drydock for a significant time, and then the RAF nuisance raids begin, while if she gets torpedoed and has to limp home, that makes things easier for the submarines.
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Quite agree about Chris's excellent book.
I have to admit it is the 9 year old in me that prefers Tomcats to MRCAs..
The F14 in RAF or RN colours just looks so good...

It's the nine year old in us all which can't understand why you can't just sling a quartet of Phoenix under the wings of an ADV Tornado and head off on an intercept mission with them.

As a matter of fact, the nine year old in me broke down and cried the other day when he read Norman Friedman's Fighters Over the Fleet and found out that not only was the Tomcat (as it existed when I was nine) deeply flawed in some ways,  but that its legendary six-Phoenix warload almost never carried because of performance issues and the missile was actually not that crash-hot at maximum range against a manoeuvering target. In short, the Tomcat's bubble was thoroughly and utterly burst.

"But... but..." he blubbered, and then the tears began and I still don't think he's recovered yet. :D  :P I'm trying to comfort him with the fact that whatever the Tomcat's problems might have been, at least it isn't the F-111B. ;)
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Theoretical and Speculative Projects / Re: "The Plane Makers"
« Last post by Hood on Yesterday at 02:15:17 am »
Looking more closely at the fuselage of the 'Sovereign', its clear that the window line is too low. Its situated along the centre of the diameter, most airliners have them a bit higher. Taking allowances for where the floor is etc. when the passengers sit down inside the windows would probably be at shoulder height or lower. Its evident when you compare it against other fuselages like the Herald and Viscount.
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Modern 3D graphics never have the same impact on me as the traditional drawn artist's impression with their combination of inspired guesswork and knowledge. They look less polished yet are often more emotive and give you a better feel and its fun to see how far the inspired guesses were correct or not compared to the real thing.
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