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Author Topic: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects  (Read 84453 times)

Offline frank

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2007, 05:23:46 pm »

      I'm thinking I've seen that boat as 485 as well. I'll have to try to look.


WOW! That flying boat is a new one to me! I have always been impressed by the evolutionary development that Tupolev did from the Tu-4 to the Tu-95.

Offline borovik

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2007, 12:35:15 pm »

      I'm thinking I've seen that boat as 485 as well. I'll have to try to look.


This is the 485, which I have. They worked since Summer of 1948, then stopped it and began the 489 development. There were turboprop/jet versions, 4 or 6 engines,  I have more specifications and will post them or send, if needed.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 12:44:34 pm by borovik »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2007, 12:57:57 pm »
The Tu-504 flying boat bomber is principally very similar to the Myasischtschew 3M-M,
the fkying boat derivative of the Bison. And for both I think, they would have had no
chance to be competitive as a combat aircraft !
 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline flateric

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2007, 12:06:51 pm »
Dear Jemiba, with all my poor aerospace education I hardly can say that -504 and 3M-M has many common in their design.
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stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2007, 01:19:40 pm »
"I hardly can say that -504 and 3M-M has many common in their design."

You're right of course, they have different powerplants and apart from several bolts
and nuts you probabably wouldn't have found identical components, but ...
both were derivatives from landbased aircraft, designed in the same way, by deepening
the fuselage in quite an extreme way, as both basic aircraft had very slim fuselages,
and fitting them with a convenional flying boat planing bottom. There were few landbased
variants of flyingboats planned (e.g. of the Saro Princess), but for the other way round,
there are even fewer examples, The only other I can remember, was the Convair design
for a flying boat derivative of the Comet .But that was an aerodynamically surprisingly
clean design, something I really cannot say of the Tu-504 and the 3M-M.
But ok, to compare a heavy prop bomber and a jet bomber may have meant over stretching
ones phantasy, although both were designed as combat aircraft, with the same simple and
probably unrealistic idea in mind.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline borovik

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2007, 02:59:44 pm »
Hi,

In the Jets magazine they said that the Tupolev Tu-18 was developed
from Tu-72,can anyone confirm this Info ?.
 
   Dear Hesham. You should compare yourself .(I apologize for long delay)

Offline borovik

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2007, 03:11:36 pm »
Hi,

Also I read that the Tupolev Tu-76 = Tu-32,that means there was a Tu-30
design,does anyone know it ?.
Source: Vl.Rigmant "Under sign ANT & Tu" (Авиация и космонавтика)magazine №8.98 /p.48/
           : Bastion Vol.2
« Last Edit: June 26, 2007, 03:02:42 am by borovik »

Offline Iranian F-14A

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2007, 04:32:43 pm »
The Tu-72 looks like it was heavely influenced by the B-25 Mitchell.In some views,it looks just like a jet powered B-25.Russia did by large numbers of them,so modification of the basic design would have been a good way to get a new aircraft and possibly improve on the design itself.They did the same with the B-29 in the form of the basic Tu-4 Bull ,which was identical, then the modified and improved Tu-85 Barge,and ultimently the Tu-95 Bear.

Offline Pioneer

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2007, 02:20:11 am »
The Tu-30 (4 x Nene turbojet engine) design looks very much like the American North American B-45 Tornado

Regards
Pioneer

Offline hesham

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2013, 04:00:07 pm »
Hi,


here is some Tupolev bomber aircraft and projects, Tu-73,Tu-83,Aircraft 486,Aircraft 491
and Aircraft 509.


http://crimso.msk.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft27588.htm
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 04:19:14 pm by hesham »

Offline hesham

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Offline airman

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Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2013, 08:05:12 am »
From Aerokosmicheskoye Obozreniye N2, 2008:
  • Aircraft "83" inboard profile.
Aircraft "83" differed from Aircraft "82" by having an increased fuselage length (19.9 m). The crew now included a gunner/radio operator, who was located behind the pilot. Radio-controlled PSBN bombs could now be replaced by REM-S precision targeting hardware. The AFA-BA/40 camera was replaced by an AFA-33/75. The shape and size of the canopy pilot were changed, and so was the breakdown of the fuselage fuel tanks. Construction of Aircraft "83" started at Factory #156, but in 1949 all work stopped. Work on Aircraft "82" (the first practical step towards the creation of the Tu-16) and Aircraft "83" ended in 1950 when the "82" prototype aircraft was mothballed and the Soviet Air Force launched the production of the Il-28 straight-wing front-line bomber.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 09:03:10 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2013, 08:15:22 am »
From Aerokosmicheskoye Obozreniye N2, 2008:
  • Aircraft "486" inboard profile
  • Aircraft "486" model
The basis of the wing arrangement on Aircraft "486" that of Aircraft "82", but with its length increased by 8.15 m. Vertical tail was prolonged by a dorsal fin. The size of the empennage was increased in accordance with the increase in the wing area and extension and the stability requirements for swept wings.

The fuselage was borrowed from the Aircraft "73", but was subjected to alteration of the nose landing gear compartment due to the increased height of the rack and the shift from single to twin wheels. The use of the swept wing also required to move the upper turret 6 m forward, ahead of the pressurized cabin.  fuel A tank with capacity for 2350 kg of fuel was located high above the bomb bay.

Another fuselage tank with capacity for 2310 kg of fuel, was also placed to the rear, which forced to shift the rear fuselage pressurized cockpit by about 1 m. Due to the increased weight of the aircraft (up to 32 tons) the landing gear was strengthened by using new wheels.

Work on the Aircraft "486" ended at the initial design stage, serving as a basis for the design of the Aircraft "86" bomber in January 1949.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 09:03:36 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Tupolev post 1945 combat aircraft projects
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2013, 08:55:54 am »
From Aerokosmicheskoye Obozreniye N2, 2008:

Work on Aircraft "486" ended in the initial design stages, serving as a basis for the design of the Aircraft "86" long-range bomber in January 1949. Initially, Aircraft "86" was a modification of the Tu-14, designed by OKB-300. It was to be powered by two AM-02 turbojet engines with a thrust of 4780 kgs, or with two TR-3 turbojet engines with a thrust of 4500 kgs. After wind tunnel testing of the project at TsAGI, the aircraft was completely redesigned, and in March 1949 a completely new aircraft with swept wings was designed, based on the Aircraft "486" configuration. The original version of the machine had the following data:

Wing span, m. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25.7
Length, m. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24.1
Height, m. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.6
Swept wing degrees. . . . . . . 36.0
Flight weight overload, ie. . . . . . . 42.0
Empty weight, t. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21.7
Full speed at 6000 m, km / h . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .980
Time to climb to 5000 m min. . . . . . . 4.8
Service ceiling, m. . . . . . . . . . . 13.400
Range with 2,000 kg of bombs, km. . . .4000
Takeoff, m. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1060
Crew. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6

Airplane "86" differentiated itself from Aircraft "486" by the size of its bomb bay, calculated with a normal 2-ton bomb load of and a maximum 6-ton load; greater fuel capacity, increased from 5,2 to 17,2 cubic meters; and a larger fuselage diameter. The crew was increased to six people. The forward pressurized cabin was completely rearranged, and lost the fighter pilot-type stepped cockpit. The radio operator was moved into a separate, enclosed compartment. The front landing gear extended, while the main gear was fitted with dual wheels. Brake pads were installed in the aft fuselage. Gunnery armament supplemented the NP-23 forward cannon. A PSBN radar was fitted in the forward part of the fuselage.

During the development of Aircraft "86", the design bureau conducted research on the wing area, wing aspect ratio and flight characteristics of swept-wing aircraft. Their aim was to determine the optimal size of a wing with a sweep of 36 for a jet bomber with a takeoff weight of about 40,000 pounds and two AM-02 engines. The basis for study was a plane with a wing area of ​​80 sq.m. and an 8.06 stretch; 6,700 kg of fuel in the wings, 10,700 kg in the fuselage; and an empty weight of 19,000 kg. As a result, the optimal parameters were determined to be a wing area of 80-90 sq.m. with an 8-10 extension.

To increase the flight distance, an elongation of 10 and a wing area of 100-110 sq.m. were required. The original Aircraft "86" study  continued to evolve, increasing the length of the fuselage, wing span, overall size and fuel capacity. The forward fuselage become more pointed, and the fuselage was rearranged to accommodate extra fuel tanks. The nose landing gear was equipped with dual wheels. Front cannon installation once again included an NP-23 gun. The PSBN radar was replaced by the PSBN-M. The calculated data of the second draft of Aircraft "86" was as follows:

Wing span, m. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27.5
Length, m. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27.5
Height, m. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.3
Flight weight overload, ie. . . . . . . 42.0
Empty weight, t. . . . . . . . . . . . . 21.7
Full speed at 6000 m, km / h . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .980
Service ceiling, m. . . . . . . . . . . 13.400
Time lift to a height of 5,000 m, min. . . . 4.8
Range with 2,000 kg of bombs, km. . . .4750
Takeoff, m. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1060
Crew. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6
Bomb load, kg. . . . . . . . . . . 2000-6000
The defensive armament. . 7 guns, HP-23

Based on Aircraft "86", a reconnaissance aircraft and torpedo bomber were drafted. The former had an increased fuel capacity and photographic reconnaissance capability, while the latter featured an extended bomb bay.

Research on Aircraft "86" showed that a full-fledged long-range bomber was possible only by increasing the weight and dimensions of the machine and its engine thrust by 1.5-2 times. Work on the program stopped at the stage of active design, but design solutions (in particular, the overall layout of the fuselage) were used in the project of the Tu-16, the creation of which was performed by the same design bureau.

In the absence of AM-02 engines, the bureau prepared a variant of Aircraft "86" using the more real TR-3 engines, designed by OKB-165. The project received the designation Aircraft "87" but did not differ from the original otherwise. Preliminary design was issued on July 18, 1949, but further development work was not granted.

The layout of Aircraft "86" and Aircraft "87" was studied in the preliminary design department, headed by S. M. Egerom. Despite the fact that both projects were not implemented, the layout solutions especially for the fuselage, crew placement, weapons and equipment were implemented with little or no changes in the "88" project and the preceding "494" project, proposed by B.M. Kondorsky's team.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 08:58:08 am by Stargazer2006 »