Axis 1940 airliner dreams/projects

[Skybolt]

Ok, in 1940 the war as just started or was about to start (for Italy and Japan) and things were going fairly well. In Germany and Italy airlines and governments started to plan for the expected post-war increase in air traffic, expecially on the Atlantic routes (sound familiar?).

Diffrently from the 1938-39 spate of competions (primarily Lufthansa, on which another topic soon), requests were for land-based planes... This tells probably something.

First project is the less known (in my view). In mid-1940 Italian LATI (later Aliitalia) asked for a trans-atlantic liner with pressurized cabin for 40 passengers or so. Piaggio (chief designer Casiraghi) responded with the P-127 and with the more conservative P-126 (derivative of the P-108).
P-127 had six in-line engines, four paired in the inboard nacelles. It was a wide-body (elliptical, that is) much reminiscent of the contemporary EF-100.
In 1941 Ministery of the Air gave its approval to the P-127 and work commenced on detailed desing and mock-up construction. In September 1943 detailed design had been finished and a mock-up of a section of the cabin (for seat-placement studies) was almost completed. Everithing seems disappeared in the ensuing chaos, but, don't despair yet...

[raravia]

Amazing!!!

Any photo of the mock up?

Raravia

[Skybolt]

Not yet....

[Skybolt]

Junkers EF-100. In the same 1940 Lufthansa sent out an RFP for a trans-ocean land-based airliner. Target was a payload of 20.000 kg on a distance of 9000 Km non-stop. Engines were six 2500 hps each Junkers Jumo 9-223 diesel. Cabin was pressurized and exploited the elliptical section to add some lift. Work was halted in 1941 od orders of RLM, only to be rresumed in 1942 to develop ea military derivative for long-range maritime recoinassance in support of U-Booten, only to be again cancelled at the end of the same year.

[Skybolt]

Focke-Wulf Trans-Ozean Project. This is he older of the 1940 airliners. It originated in June 1938 during the second trans-atlantic competion issued by Lufthansa (more on this in another post). All other proposals were seaplanes. Focke-Wulf  answered to the part of the Lufthansa competiton covering an aircract covering the Frankfurt-New York direct route. Engines were four DB 9-606 coupled in-line engine of 2700 HPs each. Range was 7750 KM and top speed 700 KM/h. It is displayed in the first 3-view.
There were a score of proposed military variants, one of which, Variant "B", had the engine sited in the fuselage driving the propellers by extension shafts (third  illustration, model photo)
Civilian version "L" was pressurized and had a longer fuselage and wider wings with 40 per cent more area than "A". Second 3-views should be this variant.
Focke-Wulf took more than a year to complete the technical proposal, which was submitted to the RLM on February 1940 and so it can be viewed as a competitor of the EF-100. RLM approved the project only to cancel it in 1941. In the same 1941 Focke-Wulf started work on a more straightforward  development of the FW-200 Condor, but on this later.

[pometablava]

Wonderful

Skybolt you're my idol!, thanks for info and pics

[Skybolt]

Ah, ah, ah...      for more infos on the EF-100 go here (naturally...)http://www.geocities.com/hjunkers/ju_ef100_a1.htm and the link there to my friend Dan Johnson...
Forgot to mention that Junkers tried to interest RLM on a all-cargo version of the EF-100. Cargo capacity was outstanding, you can see by yousleves here http://www.luft46.com/junkers/juef100-2.jpg

[Skybolt]

Piaggio P-126. When in 1940 LATI issued an RFP for a transatlantic liner, Piaggio responded, besides the P-127, with two more projects. One was a very straghtforward, a civilian, minimum chage, version of the P-108B heavy bomber with a pressurized cabinr, and  the second was a more modified version of the P-108B with a marine keel. In both cases passenger capacity on a North-Atlantic route was 32. P-126 keel was not intended for an amphibian role but simply for safety reason... Had the plane have some problem in the middle of the ocean, it would be possible to emergency land and wait for help.

[Skybolt]

Piaggio P-108C, i.e. he civilian transatlantic version of the P-108 is well know since it was actually build (protorype plus 5 series plane) and extensively sed, albeit for troop transport by the Luftwaffe.
There was cargo version, P-108T, which was exteriorly similar, a part a couple of self-defence machine gun turrets.
P-108C was intended to be pressurized but no pressurization was mounted on the plane produced. After the war Piaggio proposed a last evolution of the P-108 family, the P-108 T-2, fully pressurized and intended for mixed passenger/cargo transport. It differed by the war-time types in the nose (very Stratoliner looking...) and the engines, that could be of different tupes, from 1200 to 2000 HP each. The P-108T-2 could carry ten metric tons of cargo or 48/60 passenger (depending on sites arrangement) or a mix of the two.

[Skybolt]

After the 1938 FW-200 record non-stop fliights from Berlin to New York, Tokio, Hanoi, Kurt Tank, Chief-Designer of Focke-Wulf. tested the Lufthansa interest for an enlarged transatlantic-oriented version of the machine. Keep in mind that at that time FW was already busy with design-work on the Trans-Ozean project. The Tank's move probably was suggested by the desire of edging the company's bets on Lufthansa future contracts and by the opportunity to exploit the enormous publicity brought to the FW-200 by the record flights.
Anyhow, by  first months of 1939 the structural design was ready and FW proceeded in building in his factory in Bremen a full scale mock-up of the cabin in which Lufthansa specialist started to work to find the best arrangements of the sites, the kitchen (flights were very long and at the time flyers' taste was more gourmand than today's  ) and other facilities. The cabin and the cockpit were to be pressurized. Start of the war slowed down the project, until Tank, who was very powerful politically, obtained after the "debacle" that the new aircraft development would be transferred to French firm SNCASO under the suprvsion of FW's Dipl.-Ing. Bansemirs. In so doing FW central offices and factories would be free to follow the war work. In SNCASO work proceeded very slowly and not much hade been done by the end of 1942, when the program was cancelled altogheter.
Engines were 4 in-line DB 603 rated at 1950 HPs each. FW 300 could tcarry 40 passengers plus 5 crew members.
In 1942 the RLM asked for a long-range maritime recon and U-Boot support with guided-weapons carrier capability FW responded with a version with Jumo 222 engine and a pressuriz capsule for the 8-men crew. This version was a competotor of the above mentioned military version of EF-100. This machine too was cancelled little later the purely civilian one.
Compared to the TO Project, FW-300 looks much less visionary and with less growth potential. If things would have gone normally, probably it would have been ready to flight before the TO, so Tank decision was probably right: first put a near term product in place and then bring the real competitor inline. 

[joncarrfarrelly]

A different FW 300 drawing.

The FW 200 L, intended for a Berlin-Brazil run.

And a pair of projects from Junkers and Arado (full 3-views now):
The Junkers design was for a double-decker aircraft approximately 35m long with a wingspan of 44.5m.
The engines are unknown but the Jumo 211 or 213 are probably the likely choice.

The Arado was to be powered by four Jumo 208 Diesel engines, two in each nacelle.
Several variants were studied for both trans-Atlantic and European routes.

Cheers, Jon

[Skybolt]

Great Jon, thanx!

[Kiwiguy]

Junkers EF-100. In the same 1940 Lufthansa sent out an RFP for a trans-ocean land-based airliner. Target was a payload of 20.000 kg on a distance of 9000 Km non-stop. Engines were six 2500 hps each Junkers Jumo 9-223 diesel. Cabin was pressurized and exploited the elliptical section to add some lift. Work was halted in 1941 od orders of RLM, only to be rresumed in 1942 to develop ea military derivative for long-range maritime recoinassance in support of U-Booten, only to be again cancelled at the end of the same year.

Skybolt, I think if you do a bit more research you will find you've made some fundamental errors about the EF100. The EF100 was actually in response to an RLM request for a long range patrol aircraft to reach "Amerika Falls" (ie US east coast) and return.

The four engined EF53 was the four engined airliner proposal of 1940/41 for an airliner to reach New York.

The six engined airliner which you've depicted in artwork is a projected development from the EF100 proposal as the Ju-390D.

The EF100 project was in fact a precursor to the Ju-390 design.

[joncarrfarrelly]

Junkers EF-100. In the same 1940 Lufthansa sent out an RFP for a trans-ocean land-based airliner. Target was a payload of 20.000 kg on a distance of 9000 Km non-stop. Engines were six 2500 hps each Junkers Jumo 9-223 diesel. Cabin was pressurized and exploited the elliptical section to add some lift. Work was halted in 1941 od orders of RLM, only to be rresumed in 1942 to develop ea military derivative for long-range maritime recoinassance in support of U-Booten, only to be again cancelled at the end of the same year.

Skybolt, I think if you do a bit more research you will find you've made some fundamental errors about the EF100. The EF100 was actually in response to an RLM request for a long range patrol aircraft to reach "Amerika Falls" (ie US east coast) and return.

The four engined EF53 was the four engined airliner proposal of 1940/41 for an airliner to reach New York.

The six engined airliner which you've depicted in artwork is a projected development from the EF100 proposal as the Ju-390D.

The EF100 project was in fact a precursor to the Ju-390 design.

Black Cross Volume 2 Junkers Ju 90 by Karl-Heinz Regnat(English translation of his 'vom Original zum Modell' volume on the Ju 90)
states that development of the long range reconnaissance version of the EF100 was begun after the airliner versions.
The work was carried out in the period 1940-42 and terminated in 1942.

EF100 drawing from Regnat attached.

Jon

[lark]

There is nothing wrong with Skybolt's info Kiwiguy..

The EF53 should have been early development of the EF100 project.
(caption with the illustration is wrong in Hugo Junkers,Pionier der Luftfarhrt- page 534)
The EF100 was conceived in late 1940 by Junkers on R.L.M.request.
The project was offered in 3 versions.

To awake interest in Luftwaffe circles ,later, a transportversion with nett.load 20.000kg/5000km range
was offered, but the Lagrange transport task was taken over by the BV-222.

Only in 1942,with the urgency because of the Battle of the Atlantic,the idea for a
long range recce.version came to light. Instead of a EF100 development, an enlarged
version of the Ju-290 was chosen.This became the Ju-390...

sources: Junkers Grossflugzeuge-H.J.Nowarra.Motorbuch-Stuttgart 1988.
             Hugo Junkers ,Pionier der Luftfahrt und seine Flugzeuge-Bernard&Graefe 1996
             Black Cross vol 3