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Author Topic: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser  (Read 5425 times)

Offline moin1900

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SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« on: December 07, 2008, 08:08:58 am »
Hi everybody

Here a very strange project !
The Nuclear bomb pumped Laser
Project: EXCALIBUR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Excalibur
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x.html
http://datenratte.blogspot.com/2008/10/x-ray-laser.html
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/sdi.html
Maybe someone have some better drawings, pictures,
concept arts etc. of this project ?  

Many greetings and Thanks a lot for every reply
« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 05:32:02 am by moin1900 »

Offline Michel Van

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2008, 12:20:11 pm »
Oh boy not that again

The X-ray laser is one of strangest Weapon development programs of our time
brainchild of Edward Teller (the guy claim he developed the H-bomb)

he proposed Ronald Reagan the use of H-bomb as Deathray weapon aka the bomb-pumped laser.

the Idea is simple take a H-bomb warp allot Copper cable around and also warp cupper tube in it !
catapult that "Spools of thread"  into space and Nuke it
during the nanoseconds were "Spools of thread" vaporise
the Plasma will produce at long axe of copper tube a X-ray Laser impulse

after some sources
the DoD made 25 Nuclear test to prove the concept
the Concept was prove, but  with a little problem
the X-ray Laser impulse was not like a Deathray, more like a electric torches  ::)

another problem was use of nuclear weapon in Space
see Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty
there was the Ideas to use U-boats SLBM Trident rockets for it

Quote
Maybe someone have some better drawings, pictures, concept arts etc. of this project ? 
of one most top secrets Weapon programs of all time ?

mabye this help you
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x.html#laser
scroll down to the bomb-pumped laser.


I love Strange Technology

Offline sferrin

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2008, 12:45:04 pm »
Oh boy not that again

The X-ray laser is one of strangest Weapon development programs of our time
brainchild of Edward Teller (the guy claim he developed the H-bomb)

he proposed Ronald Reagan the use of H-bomb as Deathray weapon aka the bomb-pumped laser.

the Idea is simple take a H-bomb warp allot Copper cable around and also warp cupper tube in it !
catapult that "Spools of thread"  into space and Nuke it
during the nanoseconds were "Spools of thread" vaporise
the Plasma will produce at long axe of copper tube a X-ray Laser impulse

after some sources
the DoD made 25 Nuclear test to prove the concept
the Concept was prove, but  with a little problem
the X-ray Laser impulse was not like a Deathray, more like a electric torches  ::)

another problem was use of nuclear weapon in Space
see Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty
there was the Ideas to use U-boats SLBM Trident rockets for it

Quote
Maybe someone have some better drawings, pictures, concept arts etc. of this project ? 
of one most top secrets Weapon programs of all time ?

mabye this help you
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x.html#laser
scroll down to the bomb-pumped laser.




That's a science fiction site.  Not one I'd rely on for factual info   ;)  If you want more detail on the internal politics and goings on of the X-ray laser program I'd recommend this book.  Haven't read it in nearly 20 years but as I recall the head genius behind it saw the potential medical uses of the x-ray laser (drasticly lower powered obviously) and said essentially "screw this, I'm tired of weapons" and bailed.

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Warriors-P-William-Broad/dp/0671628208/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228681917&sr=1-1

"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2008, 12:56:46 pm »
"Take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure!B)

Moonbat
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline flateric

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2008, 01:19:27 pm »

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Warriors-P-William-Broad/dp/0671628208/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228681917&sr=1-1



Well, it's a *book*. Selected chapters were even published in Soviet Union ca.1986 as a part of book of anti-SDI thematics.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline OM

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2008, 01:46:27 pm »
...if there was one thing to be said about the X-Ray Nuke Laser proposals, it gave Marvel Comics a loophole to keep the origin of the Incredible Hulk relatively intact in an era where atmospheric nuclear testing is a big no-no. The Gamma Bomb was actually a ground-based Gamma Ray Laser that went a bit haywire when it fired, and went KERBLOOIE instead of Kerplunk.

Offline TomS

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2008, 08:12:39 pm »
mabye this help you
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x.html#laser
scroll down to the bomb-pumped laser.


That's a science fiction site.  Not one I'd rely on for factual info   ;) 

Actually, the Atomic Rockets (projectrho.com) site isn't science fiction at all.  It's a site designed to explain the real science issues involved in typical science fictional space travel and related concepts -- mostly to explain why things don't work as described in typical SF stories.  The math and science are pretty solid, in my experience.  Of course, the section on x-ray lasers focuses heavily on the theoretical physics of the device and not on practical matters or program development (it does note that Teller's Excalibur was discredited, though). 


Offline r16

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2008, 12:51:04 am »
now that site really is the find of the day for me personally . Even when ı know next to nothing about many of the things in SPF , ı can still benefit from it .Thanks .

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 06:10:29 am »
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a338619.pdf

Quote
Abstract: This study, concentrating on the period of Reagan's presidency, examines the role of Congress in
the development and evolution of the Strategic Defense Initiative, including relations between Congress
and the SDIO, which exercised primary responsibility for the program within the Department of Defense.
The argument presented here is that Congress played a larger role in shaping SDI than is generally
appreciated.

Quote
         (U) At Los Alamos' rival, the Lawerence Livermore National Laboratory near San Francisco,
a similar ABM project was gathering momentum at about the same time. The coordinator, Dr.
Lowell Wood, was a protege of Dr. Edward Teller, former director of Lawrence Livermore and
hailed by many as the "father" of the U.S. H-bomb. Known as "Excalibur," the project's purpose was
to explore the practicability of a theory initially posited by Peter Hagelstein, an MIT-trained
electrical engineer, who envisioned a compact laser pumped by X-rays from a small nuclear
detonation. After several failures, the concept was successfully tested at the Nevada underground
nuclear test site late in 1980.8

        (U) Encouraged by the results, Teller launched a vigorous lobbying campaign in Washington
to gain additional funding and support for X-ray laser research. With the advent of the Reagan
administration in 1981, Teller, who knew Reagan personally, was all but assured a sympathetic
audience. While governor of California in 1967, Reagan had attended a special Lawrence Livermore
briefing arranged by Teller on the progress being made there in strategic defenses, and over the years
since they had stayed in touch on such matters. In the events leading up to Reagan's SDI speech, it
seems clear that Teller's views were among those the President found most persuasive.9

        (U) Excalibur, as Teller saw it, was more than simply another scientific experiment. Indeed,
at the core of the program, he believed, was the chance for a radical revision of U.S. strategic
doctrine. "A single x-ray laser ... the size of an executive desk," he argued,"... could potentially
shoot down the entire Soviet land-based missile force."10 With such enormous potential, in Teller's
estimation, the X-ray laser and similar new technologies, if fully exploited, offered the opportunity
to liberate humanity, once and for all, from the dismal threat of nuclear war. Instead of a strategy
of deterrence resting on the threat of mutual assured destruction, or MAD, Teller foresaw the coming
of a new era of mutual assured survival built around defensive rather than offensive weaponry.
"The policy of the West," he argued,

                    is to preserve peace. We tried to do it by deterrence—because on the
                    other side, in the East, there is an expansionist, imperialist power.
                    Peace was to be preserved by the obvious means of deterrence: the
                    menace of retaliation. ... I don't think any of us liked it from the
                    very beginning. It has been not quite morally acceptable; not to me,
                    not (I believe) to any reasonable person. There seemed to be no
                    alternative. Now an alternative has emerged. We find in our
                    developing technology more and more possibilities of real defence.
                    Not with the idea and, I would certainly say, not with the assurance
                    of complete protection, but with the idea that defense can make the
                    result of aggression doubtful. . . .11


______________________
8 William Broad, Star Warriors: The Young Scientists Who Are Inventing the Weaponry of Space
  (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1985), 118-119; Clarence A. Robinson, Jr., "Advance Made
on High Energy Laser," Aviation Week and Space Technology, Feb. 23, 1981: 25-27.

9 Sanford Lakoff and Herbert York, A Shield in Space? (Berkeley, Calif.: University of
   California Press, 1989), 11-14. Also see Broad, Star Warriors. 122; and Gregg Herken, "The
   Earthly Origins of Star Wars," Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, vol. 43, no. 8 (Oct. 1987),
   20-22.

10 Ltr, Teller to Paul H. Nitze, Dec. 28, 1984, in Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. 44 (Nov.
   1988): 5.

11 Teller quoted in Michael Charlton, From Deterrence to Defense (Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard
   University Press, 1987), 95-96.

Quote
Exactly what the critics found objectionable about SDI depended largely on their
personal preferences and what they perceived to be the priorities of their constituents. The most
often mentioned criticism was the program's cost, not only during the research phase as outlined in
the Fletcher report, but as a possible option for future deployment. Among Democrats, especially
liberals and those representing declining urban centers or populations dependent on federal
entitlement programs, there was a tendency to regard SDI as a menacing competitor for increasingly
scarce resources due to the Reagan administration's reordering of social spending priorities. By
limiting funding during the research phase, they apparently saw an opportunity to slow the program
to the point that any decision on deployment would be delayed indefinitely, thereby curbing the
chance that SDI might establish a rival claim on the budget.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 06:20:19 am by Grey Havoc »

Offline blackstar

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 08:02:31 am »
Thanks for posting that.

The cable TV show "The Americans" has featured an SDI plot, although it's set in early 1981 (a couple of years before the formal announcement of SDI). Surprisingly, it's actually based in some real facts, because some people were lobbying the new administration on the issue of missile defense at that time.

Offline bobbymike

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 09:21:34 am »
"Star Warriors" is a great book (recommend highly) hope our weapons labs are still filled with people so completely and unapologeticly dedictated to the defense of this naiton.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 09:36:23 am by bobbymike »
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. 
H. L. Mencken

Offline Mat Parry

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2013, 01:15:32 am »


http://www.darpa.mil/Our_Work/MTO/Programs/Ultrabeam.aspx

ULTRABEAM
The goal of the Ultrabeam program is to demonstrate, with laboratory-scale equipment, the world’s first gamma ray laser.

The demonstration of a laboratory-scale X-ray laser with record-high photon energy of 4.5 keV in the first phase of the Ultrabeam program opens the possibility of creating gamma ray lasers.

Compact gamma ray lasers can enable new and more effective radiation therapy and radiation diagnostic tools for medical and materials/device inspection applications (e.g., TRUSTed ICs).

The unique X-ray laser technology developed in UltraBeam could enable the development of compact, laboratory-scale, high-brightness coherent sources and ultimately enable 3-D molecular-scale imaging of living cells.

The Ultrabeam program has two phases. The first phase demonstrated saturated X-ray gain at 4.5 keV with an estimated 10 mJ, about 30 attosecond as pulsed output and obtained evidence for the transmission of these X-ray pulses through normally opaque low-Z solid targets, an anomalous propagation behavior consistent with the formation of dielectric plasma-waveguide channels in the solid targets.

The second (current) phase of the Ultrabeam program is a 36-month effort that is structured to develop a higher-power X-ray pump laser, gamma ray diagnostics, and gain modeling; develop necessary pump power compression and gain-length techniques and demonstrate coherent gamma ray amplification in high-atomic number solid materials.

Offline pavel

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2014, 08:24:25 pm »
Page off magazine Scientific American October 1984 Vol. 251 number 4.
Orbital laser weapon (detail). Bottom left - astronaut (!!). This is only a small part of a giant device. Composite system the aperture mirrors reflecting massive laser beams into one huge stream to achieve the purpose on the planet. Astronaut smaller than one mirror! Interesting question: how NASA was going to show me this into orbit in 1984? Ronald Reagan was a great director ...

Offline Byeman

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2014, 03:05:36 am »
how NASA was going to show me this into orbit in 1984? Ronald Reagan was a great director ...

NASA would have nothing to do with it.  The DOD would have developed a launch vehicle to carry it.

Offline George Allegrezza

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Re: SDI : Nuclear bomb pumped X-Ray Laser
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2014, 06:25:04 am »
Page off magazine Scientific American October 1984 Vol. 251 number 4.
Orbital laser weapon (detail). Bottom left - astronaut (!!). This is only a small part of a giant device. Composite system the aperture mirrors reflecting massive laser beams into one huge stream to achieve the purpose on the planet. Astronaut smaller than one mirror! Interesting question: how NASA was going to show me this into orbit in 1984? Ronald Reagan was a great director ...


As a former subscriber, I remember the article.  Scientific American was one of the earliest and most strident anti-SDI voices in the American press. As I remember it, their typical approach was to describe any ABM weapon in a way that maximized its size and thus cast doubts on its practicality and affordability.