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Author Topic: German WWII Atomic Bombs  (Read 24309 times)
edwest
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« Reply #75 on: November 19, 2008, 02:39:02 am »

Yes. The Americans released the atomic documents collected during the war and immediately after, to the Deutsches Museum. Contact them.
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r16
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« Reply #76 on: November 19, 2008, 09:42:02 am »

as an addition to agricola64's post ı agree that they didn't have the means to produce weaponry in 1945 and ı stress even if they had , all they could do was dirty bombs and not proper weapons .
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edwest
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« Reply #77 on: November 19, 2008, 06:05:55 pm »

Your denial is not based on research. After the war, the US Navy was put in charge of the V-2. The US Air Force was not yet separated from the US Army. A document exists in the US National Archives with the following title:

A.P.W./U. (Ninth Air Force) 96/1945, 373.2 of 19 August 1945. Investigation, Research, Developments and Practical Use of the German Atomic Bomb, Packets Numbers 47 to 53. Published by COMNAVEU, 1946.

This document gives details as reported by an aerial observer of a German atomic bomb detonation which occurred during the war. Contact NARA.
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Wembley
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« Reply #78 on: November 19, 2008, 06:37:28 pm »


The alleged bomb detonation is not considered credible though. Where's the evidence that it ever happened?

"The Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt (PTB, Federal Physical and Technical Institute) tested soil samples in the area of the alleged test, and in 2006 it issued its results: keinen Befund (no finding)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nuclear_energy_project#Recent_developments
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agricola64
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« Reply #79 on: November 19, 2008, 07:03:03 pm »


The alleged bomb detonation is not considered credible though. Where's the evidence that it ever happened?

"The Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt (PTB, Federal Physical and Technical Institute) tested soil samples in the area of the alleged test, and in 2006 it issued its results: keinen Befund (no finding)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nuclear_energy_project#Recent_developments

there is also no radiological indication that a reactor was ever operated by nazi germany .. if there would be such an indication, you can bet that the green party would have used that for anti-nuke propaganda while it was in the german federal governemt
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edwest
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« Reply #80 on: November 20, 2008, 06:19:04 am »

In my research regarding this question, there are many records from the OSS and the Counter-Intelligence Corps. This latter group was responsible for locating certain individuals. Only recently have a few members of the OSS been able to speak about some of their work. And what was the secrecy about? A few people assassinated? A few buildings blown up? A few jet aircraft? Certainly not the V-1 and V-2.

In the United States, an interrogation center was set up during the war. Germans of interest were brought there. A place identified only as P.O. Box 1142. The following article refers to one individual who was involved with "enriching uranium."


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93649575


More information continues to appear.


Ed
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overscan
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« Reply #81 on: November 20, 2008, 08:06:21 am »

I'm sorry, and this is my personal opinion only, but from what I can see this kind of research assumes a fact (The Nazis had a workable nuclear bomb project, the Nazis invented anti-gravity etc) and then attempts to amass "evidence" to support it. ALL contrary evidence is discounted out of hand, as it would invalidate the central premise. Any evidence supporting the premise is automatically valid, no matter its credibility.

Regarding your provided links, how exactly does the fact that a "German scientist" was working on uranium enrichment mean anything? Noone has ever denied that German scientists were working on uranium enrichment, they just didn't far enough. In fact one of the main objectives of Alsos was to locate and secure German stocks of enriched uranium.

How does

Quote
"A new edition of "Forschungsberichte" was planned containing articles on successful pile experiments. Five articles in all were contemplated, and Gerlach wrote an introductory summary"

tell us ANYTHING? "Success" judged how? Was Gerlach telling the truth? If the articles were only "planned", where is the proof that the "successful" experiments had even taken place by the end of the war. All we know from this line is that one interviewed person claimed to have written an introduction to a series of articles he was planning to write in the future.

If Germany had a workable plan for making a bomb, why could the Alsos mission find no trace of it? Alsos concluded that no critical mass was attained in any WW2 German pile experiments, after conducting lots of face-to-face interviews, including the report you are quoting from, and ACTUALLY BEING THERE at the time.

Good research is not the fine-combing of piles of material for some hidden "smoking gun" that confirms your theory. Its coming to an objective conclusion based on a consideration of all the evidence, not just the ones that fit a researcher's pet theory. Therefore feel free to bring forward the evidence for these claims, and we will consider them.

I can't promise to believe the conclusions however.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 08:08:06 am by overscan » Logged
zen
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« Reply #82 on: November 20, 2008, 12:53:25 pm »

I've said this once, I'll say it again, no reflector means no reactor. Even if they had got it running (with a reflector) there was no control rods and no proceedure to stopping the reaction, it would run away and kill a lot of people.
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Barrington Bond
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« Reply #83 on: November 20, 2008, 09:07:16 pm »

The article does not bode well when it starts off having to correct itself saying that Wernher Von Braun was not captured on a U-Boat as it at first claimed!

Also having just finished "The Rocket Team" it makes no mention of Von Braun ever having been at Fort Hunt (also he couldn't have been buying lingerie in a Jewish apartment store for his wife as he wasn't married!). The only mention of Fort Hunt was that some POW German Naval officers were borrowed to help sort and translate documents from the German rocket programmes as the American Army personnel originally supposed to do it didn't have enough knowledge of german technical/scientific language.

Regards,
Barry
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r16
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« Reply #84 on: November 21, 2008, 09:45:29 am »

as being someone dealing with murky and unsupported and practically never heard before stuff  so secretive that many people in my town believe  ı am making them up , ı think ı have a right to say that the general feeling against a German bomb is totally valid . Uncovering the truth is a worthwhile goal ı agree but truth is that there was no German bomb and even if there was what would it change ? There are many people interested in history , they are  -let's say- excited by weapons , ı know as ı am one , they are continiously surprised by German work in WW2 period but the very premise of total German superiority in research is merely an a ploy by actual Nazis. Germans were undeniably ahead in many fields but not to the extent that they could do a bomb out of thin air or make a saucer , two things yet to be realised by the other nations of this planet . But back in times when hippies reigned it was fashionable to portray aliens as peaceful , love made the things go around and having achieved success in interplanetary flight would prove those good old bunch of Nazis were actually good hearted , warm , innocent people , worthy of reconsideration for running the world when they got together a few divisions . That is why people of today who think it was probable for Germans to do such stuff get labelled a Nazi sooner or later . And it is a shame to be insulted for mere wondering when the person in question might be more than willing to oppose Nazis if there were any  around . Is it worth the candle for fighting a German bomb that didn't exist ? Forum members who disagree on the premise do it because they don't have the evidence , ı am merely adding a small contribution .
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Justo Miranda
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« Reply #85 on: November 21, 2008, 09:58:30 pm »

That is a bit old fashioned.
Not even Indiana Jones gets himself pursued by them anymore ... Grin
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r16
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« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2008, 08:59:08 am »

we have a local saying in Turkey on "talking about the people outside of the room" and as ı was saying ı was just making a small contribution to the discussion . More of the same at

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5645.0.html as it can be justified as ı was somewhat diluting the thread  with some personal views .

ı had prepared at home and the wording might sound somewhat odd as it is not a reply of any kind to the fully appropriate remark he has made ...
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 09:03:41 am by r16 » Logged
Kiwiguy
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« Reply #87 on: December 18, 2008, 02:18:42 am »

I think if you bother to research the real facts you'll find that Nazi Germany did not have any H-bomb project. It did have two A-bomb projects. One involved a Plutonium bomb concept in a project connected with Fritz Houtermanns and a Uranium A-bomb project connected with Kurt Diebner.

Paul Harteck developed the Uranium centrifuge from a concept invented by Erich Bagge in 1942. These Uranium centrifuges permitted the creation of enriched Uranium without the need for heavy water reactors required to make Plutonium.
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Lauge
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« Reply #88 on: December 18, 2008, 09:36:18 am »

I think if you bother to research the real facts......

OK, where ? As in, what are the sources for these rather definitive statements ?

Regards, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year,

Thomas L. Nielsen
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Kiwiguy
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« Reply #89 on: December 18, 2008, 11:43:28 am »

Quote
OK, where ? As in, what are the sources for these rather definitive statements ?

Happy to oblige Lauge. Glad to come across someone willing to do some real reading and research...

I could suggest you read a whole library of books but best you start with just four or five.

Firstly there was no Nazi H-bomb. Some seem to confused by the use of Plutonium in H-bombs to suggest that the Nazis had an H-bomb. I have never found any such evidence or suggestions.
To create an H-bomb you first need to create a Plutonium A-bomb and the Nazis were never close to producing sufficient Plutonium. To do so would require three years of fission in a Heavy water reactor with precisely correct ratios of U235 and U238. If you get these ratios wrong you simply produce useless Plutonium 240 which is why North Korea failed to create it’s own A-bomb recently.

After three years of fission the Nazis then would have required two years to cool the spent fuel rods, before chemical separation of Plutonium from other radionuclides. The Nazis for one thing lacked the time to harvest Plutonium even had they built a working heavy water reactor.
They were however a lot nearer to producing a Uranium A-bomb from centrifuge enriched bomb grade Uranium and this is the untold story of WW2.

With the interest of the Heereswaffenamt (Army Ordnance Office), or HWA, Riehl, and his colleague Günter Wirths, set up an industrial-scale production of high-purity uranium oxide at the Auergesellschaft plant in Oranienburg. Adding to the capabilities in the final stages of metallic uranium production were the strength’s of the Degussa corporation’s capabilities in metals production.

The Auer Oranienburg plant provided the uranium sheets and cubes for the Uranmaschine (uranium machine, i.e., nuclear reactor) experiments conducted at the Kaiser-Wilhelm Gesellschaft’s Institut für Physik (KWIP, Kaiser Wilhelm Institute of Physics) and the Versuchsstelle (testing station) of the Heereswaffenamt (Army Ordnance Office) in Gottow, under the German nuclear energy project Uranverein.

The G-1 experiment performed at the HWA testing station, under the direction of Kurt Diebner, had lattices of 6,800 uranium oxide cubes (about 25 tons), in the nuclear moderator paraffin.

If you read David Irving’s meticulously researched book “The Virus House” you will discover that Dr Erich Bagge had invented and demonstrated a gaseous uranium centrifuge at Kiel Unavernin in 1942. During 1943 Dr Paul Harteck was tasked with creating a Uranium Enrichment laboratory in Hamburg to develop the so called Harteck process. This laboratory was destroyed by days of Allied bombing in July 1943.

A new HWA enrichment laboratory was created at Kummersdorf and a production facility at Freiberg code named Volmer’s Furniture factory. Degaussa received a contract from the Nazi Government for industrial scale production of uranium centrifuges which was ten times greater than the entire budget for Hiesenberg’s nuclear research at Kaiser Wilhelm Gesellschaft “KWA”. This Freiberg plant was destroyed by Allied bombing.

The new HWA uranium enrichment laboratory was shifted to Austria, code named Angora Farm. From July 1944 the SS took over Harteck’s work and shifted the centrifuges to an underground mine complex in Czechoslovakia. Ironically the uranium itself was being mined in Czechoslovakia at Jac-y-mov.

The ore was sent from Jac-y-mov to Oranienberg for refining to un-enriched yellow cake Uranium oxide. If sceptics think that Nazi germany had no significant Uranium reserves then perhaps they should explain why there was any need to bomb Oranienberg at the end of the war ?

Work of the American Operation ALSOS teams, in November 1944, uncovered leads which took them to a company in Paris that handled rare earths and had been taken over by the Auergesellschaft. This, combined with information gathered in the same month through an Alsos team in Strasbourg, confirmed that the Auergesellschaft Oranienburg plant was involved in the production of uranium and thorium metals.

Since the Oranienberg plant was to be in the future Soviet zone of occupation and the Russian troops would get there before the Allies, General Leslie Groves, commander of the Manhattan Project, recommended to General George Marshall that the plant be destroyed by aerial bombardment, in order to deny its uranium production equipment to the Russians. On 15 March 1945, 612 B-17 Flying Fortress bombers of the Eighth Air Force dropped 1,506 tons of high-explosive and 178 tons of incendiary bombs on the plant.

Nikolaus Riehl visited the site with the Russians and said that the facility was mostly destroyed. Riehl also recalled long after the war that the Russians knew precisely why the Americans had bombed the facility – the attack had been directed at them rather than the Germans.

When a Soviet search team arrived at the Auergesellschaft facility in Oranienburg, they had, however, found nearly 100 tons of fairly pure uranium oxide. The Soviet Union took this uranium as reparations, which amounted to between 25% and 40% of the uranium taken from Germany and Czechoslovakia at the end of the war. Khariton said the uranium found there saved the Soviet Union a year on its atomic bomb project

These are some sources to corroborate what I say:

Pavel V. Oleynikov, author of German Scientists in the Soviet Atomic Project, The Nonproliferation Review Volume 7, Number 2, pages 1 – 30 , published 2000. See page 9. Oleynikov has been a group leader at the Institute of Technical Physics of the Russian Federal Nuclear Center in Snezhinsk (Chelyabinsk-70).

Nikolaus Riehl and Frederick Seitz who co-authored “Stalin’s Captive: Nikolaus Riehl and the Soviet Race for the Bomb” (American Chemical Society and the Chemical Heritage Foundations, published 1996) ISBN 0-8412-3310-1

Norman M. Naimark, “The Russians in Germany: A History of the Soviet Zone of Occupation, 1945-1949” (Belknap, published 1995) see page 236.

David Holloway, “Stalin and the Bomb: The Soviet Union and Atomic Energy 1939–1956”  (Yale, published 1994) ISBN 0-300-06056-4, see page 111
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