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Author Topic: Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27  (Read 816 times)

Offline hesham

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Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27
« on: July 16, 2017, 10:53:58 am »
Hi,

here is a drawings to Avro 606 & 607,they were intended for Spec. 4/27,which needed a
three engined maritime and patrol flying boat.

Offline Schneiderman

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Re: Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2017, 12:14:20 pm »
Hesham, what was your source for these? The second one looks like 'what-if' Supermarine rather than Avro, matching a Southampton-style hull to their 4/27 monoplane wing.

Offline hesham

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Re: Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2017, 04:42:54 am »
Avro Heritage is the source.  ;)

Offline Schneiderman

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Re: Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 05:01:16 am »
Oh that's a pity, I was hoping you had found another source. 
Jackson's description of these in Avro Aircraft since 1908 is clearly wrong and neither design appears to meet the requirements of 4/27 (or 5/27 or 6/27). As Avro had zero experience in building flying boats and there were four constructors (Blackburn, Short, Saunders and Blackburn) chasing the very few contracts available there has to be a story here that needs to be told.

Offline hesham

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Re: Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2017, 05:09:44 am »
Maybe rejected in early stage.

Offline Schneiderman

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Re: Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 05:52:55 am »
Without a doubt, neither offered any obvious advantage over existing types or the designs of other companies. I suspect that they are speculative concepts/designs and not actually tendered to 4/27. This was also the time when Crossley sold the company to Armstrong Siddeley which caused Roe and other managers to resign, so the company was a little unstable.

Offline robunos

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Re: Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 09:31:28 am »

Quote
As Avro had zero experience in building flying boats . . .

Just a wild guess, perhaps the Avro 607 was a proposal for a test bed for the Type 606 wing on a Southampton Mk.II hull?
I'm thinking along similar lines to the Saunders A.14, which was a Saunders hull, of a new type of construction, but using proven Southampton flying surfaces . . .

cheers,
          Robin.
Where ARE the Daleks when you need them......

Offline Schneiderman

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Re: Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2017, 10:01:03 am »
There are very obvious Supermarine stylistic features but it was to be significantly larger than the Southampton II
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 11:45:14 am by Schneiderman »

Offline robunos

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Re: Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2017, 02:23:19 am »
As I said, just a wild guess . . . It was only later I realised that three Jupiters is way too much power for a Southampton . . .

cheers,
          Robin.
Where ARE the Daleks when you need them......

Offline Schneiderman

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Re: Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2017, 03:22:26 am »
Not at all, it was a reasonable suggestion. Mitchell was thinking along the same lines :)

Offline Schneiderman

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Re: Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2017, 02:45:39 am »
The Avro Historical Research Group got themselves, and others, terribly confused over Avro's flying boat designs. In an article in Aeromilitaria (1996, #2) they commented on Air Britain's The British Aircraft Specification File but unfortunately made further errors of their own.
The Avro Types 606 and 607 they associate with spec R.4/22, but that is surely just a typing error for R.4/27 and is understandable. However they also refer to two other Avro flying boat designs tendered to spec 40/22, which has to be wrong as that spec was for a single-engine civil transport. Both of the designs they discuss are three engined flying boats, one a monoplane the other a triplane, which included 'fighting tops', that is defensive gun positions on the wings. Neither appear in the Avro Heritage list. Now, these 'fighting top' gun positions appear to have been a requirement of spec. 9/23, to which Vickers and Supermarine are known to have responded with designs that included them. However this spec was soon cancelled and replaced by completlely different specs. issued in 1924, which resulted in the Supermarine Southampton, amongst others.
We can see from the artwork of the Avro 606 in the Avro Heritage list that it features 'fighting tops', which by 1927 had dropped from favour having been tested in both a Vickers Virginia and a Southampton 1 and found wanting. Can we conclude that the Type 606 had started as a design to 9/23 and had been dusted-off and revised for R.4/27? Possibly, it certainly looks more akin to an early 1920s design. Both the Type 606 and 607 lack the side-by-side cockpit arrangement of the other 4/27 (5/27 and 6/27) tenders and also the Calcutta and look ill-equiped to meet 1927 standards.

Offline hesham

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Re: Avro 606 & 607 For Spec. 4/27
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2017, 04:46:42 am »
I agree with that Schneiderman.