ARPA/Advanced Sensors hypervelocity gun SAWS

tround

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The SAWS had been developed by the TRW (Thompson Ramo Wooldridge) Corporation. The weapon is a modified M-3 gun with a change to a smooth barrel and automated for remote control firing. The ammunition is a modified 50 bmg case with depleted uranium flechette .

from "Sensor Aided Combat Systems Symposium Proceedings Held in Gaithersburg, Maryland on January 6-8, 1970." ADA956453
 

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tround said:
The SAWS had been developed by the TRW (Thompson Ramo Wooldridge) Corporation. The weapon is a modified M-3 gun with a change to a smooth barrel and automated for remote control firing. The ammunition is a modified 50 bmg case with depleted uranium flechette .

from "Sensor Aided Combat Systems Symposium Proceedings Held in Gaithersburg, Maryland on January 6-8, 1970." ADA956453
WOW thank you Tony. Can't think of better time to reintroduce but no is listening. :(
 
.50cal SLAP made this largely superfluous.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saboted_light_armor_penetrator
https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/slap.htm

A flechette fired from a smoothbore is a miniature APFSDS, while SLAP is essentially miniature APDS.

(yes, the polymer sabot of SLAP is discarding, hence APDS not APCR: http://tania-lynne.com/clients/ropd/html/resources/webhelp/b-3._.50_caliber,_saboted_light_armor.htm )
 
lastdingo said:
.50cal SLAP made this largely superfluous.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saboted_light_armor_penetrator
https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/slap.htm

A flechette fired from a smoothbore is a miniature APFSDS, while SLAP is essentially miniature APDS.

(yes, the polymer sabot of SLAP is discarding, hence APDS not APCR: http://tania-lynne.com/clients/ropd/html/resources/webhelp/b-3._.50_caliber,_saboted_light_armor.htm )
SLAP always has its place, but the possibilities of HV+ uran flechette w/ todays/tommorows propellant from a smoothbore.
sabot travels through energy eating rifling before the penetrator is freed.
Guided smoothgun no tungsten.
 
depleted uranium is far more pyrophoric than tungsten .
DU flechette pierce 20% more armor than slap at 1000 meter.
But slap have a bigger diameter and more weight . without speaking of the incendiary effects , slap has a better PHK .
usaf tried 3 calibers with DU flechette against trucks, 7.62 mm 50 caliber and 20mm m50 serie .
 
Keep in mind an AP bullet should also work fine against soft targets (persons, soft vehicles, even walls) and needs to be affordable enough for consumption in huge quantities.

Some exotic alloy munition doesn't help much it it's not in the belt when you face one of the few targets that the non-exotic alloys couldn't handle - particularly in remotely controlled weapon stations where changing the ammo belt box is much more of an issue than with simple old school mounts.

DU is afaik not available in the quantity to provide ten thousands of 50cal guns with thousands of rounds each in addition to the tank gun munition and tank armour package demand for DU.
 
lastdingo said:
Keep in mind an AP bullet should also work fine against soft targets (persons, soft vehicles, even walls) and needs to be affordable enough for consumption in huge quantities.

Some exotic alloy munition doesn't help much it it's not in the belt when you face one of the few targets that the non-exotic alloys couldn't handle - particularly in remotely controlled weapon stations where changing the ammo belt box is much more of an issue than with simple old school mounts.

DU is afaik not available in the quantity to provide ten thousands of 50cal guns with thousands of rounds each in addition to the tank gun munition and tank armour package demand for DU.
Mentioned the need for SLAP and understood it is not an OCSW. A smoothbore semi auto/auto burst manportable (LWMMG new upper receiver group) or something...purpose built for extreme accuracy, and stealth against armor.
 
tround said:
depleted uranium is far more pyrophoric than tungsten .
DU flechette pierce 20% more armor than slap at 1000 meter.
But slap have a bigger diameter and more weight . without speaking of the incendiary effects , slap has a better PHK .
usaf tried 3 calibers with DU flechette against trucks, 7.62 mm 50 caliber and 20mm m50 serie .

IMHO 20% improvement at 1k is huge.

Didn't know tungsten had incendiary effects in isolation.

not familiar w/ PHK? if you could please.

yes, understood DU rounds are never going to be standard fair for conventional troops and will never be used in large numbers again, but their effect might be worth the overhead in particular situations as momentum and initiative are everything. .
 
tround said:
depleted uranium is far more pyrophoric than tungsten .
DU flechette pierce 20% more armor than slap at 1000 meter.
But slap have a bigger diameter and more weight . without speaking of the incendiary effects , slap has a better PHK .
usaf tried 3 calibers with DU flechette against trucks, 7.62 mm 50 caliber and 20mm m50 serie .

Of course, this ignores the toxic problems associated with the use, storage and handling of DU compared to Tungsten. If also ignores the way DU is produced - as a by product of nuclear power generation - if your nation does not have nuclear power, you need to import the ammunition. It is costly and requires special storage facilities.
 
Kadija_Man said:
tround said:
depleted uranium is far more pyrophoric than tungsten .
DU flechette pierce 20% more armor than slap at 1000 meter.
But slap have a bigger diameter and more weight . without speaking of the incendiary effects , slap has a better PHK .
usaf tried 3 calibers with DU flechette against trucks, 7.62 mm 50 caliber and 20mm m50 serie .

Of course, this ignores the toxic problems associated with the use, storage and handling of DU compared to Tungsten. If also ignores the way DU is produced - as a by product of nuclear power generation - if your nation does not have nuclear power, you need to import the ammunition. It is costly and requires special storage facilities.
thinkin everyone is quite aware.

determine the general worth of its quite limited use. Maybe tungsten HV smoothbore fits the bill..really doubt it. Good enough is high bar in such a mission.
 
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