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Author Topic: Twin Engined Canon-Fighter Model to ID  (Read 2698 times)

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Twin Engined Canon-Fighter Model to ID
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2017, 09:25:57 am »
... Personally I'd bet this is an AAC concept aircraft for demonstrating their weapon mount/idea.

I think we have a match  :)  Nice work sienar!

Offline Schneiderman

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Re: Twin Engined Canon-Fighter Model to ID
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2017, 10:25:07 am »
Not quite there yet! AAC applied for two patents for aircraft armament in 1934, both for turret systems, but nothing later. I think that the idea that it is a 'proof of concept' project has merit, far more than pursuing the Bell option, but finding a US source for the photo and article is the key.

Offline sienar

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Re: Twin Engined Canon-Fighter Model to ID
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2017, 11:36:00 am »
The head designer of AAC was a man named Bryan Pope Joyce. Hopefully a photo of him will pop up but I haven't been able to find one as of yet.

Making things confusing though is that AAC was apparently created by the Miranda brothers, quoting a Time article posted in full here; http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/thread/1123951804/4/Mysterious+automatic+cannon

"Miraculous Mirandas. Mexican-born (1897, 1898), U.S.-naturalized (1930) Alfred and Ignacio Miranda have had quite a career. When their father's New York City export business went broke (he backed the wrong general in Mexico's Madero revolution of 1910), they left school to learn the export business themselves. By 1921 they knew enough to form their own outfit, Miranda Bros. Inc., prospered by selling things below the Rio Grande. First it was automobiles. Then they became minor-league merchants of death, unloading leftover U.S. war supplies in Latin America and in the Balkans. The leftovers ran out. So the Mirandas formed their own manufacturing company, American Armament Corp., to make light artillery and ammunition.

.......

The Mirandas have had lots of bad luck. Most of their corporate clients (like Seversky) did not really get into the big time until after the Mirandas' contracts had run out. One of their Latin-American deals ended, in 1940, in a Federal sentence for violating the President's 1934 neutrality proclamation by selling bombs to Bolivia (via Chile) in the Gran Chaco War. The bombs went into Curtiss-Wright planes and Curtiss pleaded guilty to the same charges — but the Mirandas were sent to Lewisburg Penitentiary while Curtiss got a $220,000 fine. This year their main American Armaments plant was requisitioned by the Government, turned over to Vultee.

Badgered Brewster. For the Mirandas, the Brewster deal was the saddest of all. In 1939, brother Ignacio decided that Brewster's export arrangements were 1) feeble, 2) expensive. Brewster paid a 3% ''finder's fee" commission on all business, plus 10% to the resident foreign agent, but had almost no foreign business.

Ignacio sold Brewster's president James Work on the Miranda Bros, at a 12% maximum commission. (The purchaser paid for it in higher prices.) Miranda-sold orders poured in from Britain and Holland, both rearming.

Thus, even before their overhead began, the Mirandas sank $1,550,000 in their Brewster venture, bringing a $107,000,000 foreign backlog to the company.

Brewster's Buccaneer dive-bomber was full of mechanical bugs. The U.S. Navy took over, then moved out in a month and put in aviation oldtimer Charles A. Van Dusen. By this time the Miranda-Zelcer 10% stock interest was frozen in a voting trust, the commissions due them on new deliveries were frozen in stockholders' suits, and Brewster itself was solidly frozen in production and financial red tape. In came still another management — this time Miracle Man Henry J. Kaiser himself."


So the founders/backers of AAC also managed foreign armament sales on the side, mostly for aircraft companies, and they ended up owning stock in Brewster as well as managing their foreign sales.

The wing does have a bit of a Brewster look to it....


Offline Schneiderman

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Re: Twin Engined Canon-Fighter Model to ID
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2017, 12:20:30 pm »
Ignacio Miranda also had dealings with Seversky when he sold aircraft to Japan, so another strand worth investigating

Offline lark

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Re: Twin Engined Canon-Fighter Model to ID
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2017, 05:50:37 am »
Wile searching for more info , I came to this..

... Perhaps in response to "Hap" Arnolds concerns(who wanted to see a
heavily armed , multi seat fighter) the Material Division at Wright Field initiated a 1934
study... Wright Field evaluated two designs. The first , designs 301, was a modified Martin B-10 airframe
used as "bombardement accompanying weapon".

The second designs ,designated 313 was a two place pursuit type...

Perhaps this info could be usefull for further research..

Source : Cobra , Bell Aircraft Corp. 1934-1947.
Birch Mathews - Schiffer.  pages 32 and 33.

Online hesham

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Re: Twin Engined Canon-Fighter Model to ID
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2017, 07:05:35 am »
Thank you for the Info my dear Lark.

Offline tallguy

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Re: Twin Engined Canon-Fighter Model to ID
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2017, 04:14:07 am »
A drawing of that B-10 version would be nice...

Online hesham

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Re: Twin Engined Canon-Fighter Model to ID
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2017, 04:19:16 am »
Hi Tallguy,

but unfortunately we don't have a drawing to Bell Model-10,but just a description.

Offline Schneiderman

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Re: Twin Engined Canon-Fighter Model to ID
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2017, 04:24:07 am »
I'm running out of ideas rapidly for where to look for extra information. So far nothing in the US technical aviation magazines, popular science and flying magazines, or patents. The original photo posted by Hesham is a standard press photo so there surely has to be another newspaper or magazine that used it.

Offline tallguy

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Re: Twin Engined Canon-Fighter Model to ID
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2017, 04:45:24 am »
I meant the Martin escort fighter version of the B-10:)

Online hesham

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Re: Twin Engined Canon-Fighter Model to ID
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2017, 04:49:42 am »