The Other Mirages

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Keyboard Commando

Haunebu Pilot
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I had a thread on Alternatehistory.com a while back regarding this, but I thought I might get some better perspectives over here. After the Mirage III and V there were many Dassault projects to eventually replace them but as we know that only happened with the Rafale's entry into service. The Mirage F2 and F3 were canned for the F1, nothing came of the Mirage G series, and the Mirage 4000 was too late. How could any of these jets come into service, potential operators, and how would it affect the development of other jets later on.
 
If the Mirage 4000 was built, I could see it in French AF service as a Mirage IV replacement, and in the export market I would see it competing for F-15 and Su-27 orders. I could imagine it in Saudi and Indian service.
 
Between 1959 and 1979 Dassault churned a lot of prototypes. The bottom line was that the Armée de l'Air RFPs were unrealistic. The Mirage F1 should never have existed in the first place: at the time there VSTOL Mirages and swept wing and VG prototypes, some very successful technically but most of them unadequate to the AdA true needs. The Mirage F1 was designed and build on Dassault private funding and later they managed to sell it to the AdA.
The Mirage 2000 was to be build for export with the 4000 for the AdA - this time it was French President Giscard that reverted the deal - 2000 for the AdA, 4000 for export.
 
Eirigi said:
The 601 Mirage 2000 that were manufactured (an aircraft without any commonality with the Mirage III series, even the aerodynamics are in fact quite different) are here to prove wrong this statement.
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It was a generalization but it didn't fully replace them nor was it as commercially successful, I just wanted some opinions on these other Dassault projects.
 
There were no real technical issues with the Mirage F2 or Mirage G, but they were relatively complex and expensive, partly due to the use of TF30/TF306 turbofan engines, and exports would have been at risk of veto from the US. The Mirage III sold well through being simple and cheap - I can't see much of an export market for the Mirage F2 or Mirage G series. Mirage F1 was a bit stale technically and didn't too too great on the export market, let down by its rather old engine and conventional design. Why not wait a couple of years for an F-16, not too much more and an entire generation more advanced?
 
474 out of 720 produced were exported. Let's compare with export sales of Saab-37 Viggen or Panavia Tornado, for instance... 287 Mirage 2000 out of a 601 were exported.
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Maybe the export sales of the SEPECAT Jaguar would be a better comparison....
 
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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
... Mirage F2 or Mirage G ... were relatively complex and expensive, partly due to the use of TF30/TF306 turbofan engines, and exports would have been at risk of veto from the US.
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Makes you wonder if Dassault mightn't have been better off with the RR Spey for those designs?
 
Apophenia said:
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
... Mirage F2 or Mirage G ... were relatively complex and expensive, partly due to the use of TF30/TF306 turbofan engines, and exports would have been at risk of veto from the US.
Click to expand...

Makes you wonder if Dassault mightn't have been better off with the RR Spey for those designs?
Click to expand...

I doubt the Spey would have been cheaper, and it would just have swapped a US veto to a UK veto.
 
There is an excellent new kit out of the Mirage III vstol

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DASSAULT-MIRAGE-III-V-01-VTOL-MODELSVIT-PLASTIC-KIT-1-72-READ-/121755274795

If it had gone into service, it would have carried the AN52 bomb (like the Jaguars that actually did). I have no idea how it
would have done as there was a lot of engines under the fuselage, so it would have had to be a wing mounted.

I love the VSTOL and swing wing 60s jets. An RAF, Bundeswehr and Armee de l'air with these projects actually in
service would have looked fantastic. Totally impossible, but that's what dreams are made of.
 

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