Fifth RN Polaris boat was to be ROYAL SOVEREIGN

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uk 75

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I had always been sceptical of the claims in various books that the RN planned to name its
fifth Polaris boat RAMILLIES. It made no sense as all the other names RESOLUTION, RENOWN, REPULSE and REVENGE were related to the role of the boats.
In his excellent new book about the RN submarine service postwar SILENT DEEP, Prof Peter Hennessy helps yet again with a UKSP old chestnut.
He explains that the RN planned to name the fifth boat REDOUTABLE, but the Ships names Committee in 1964 chose ROYAL SOVEREIGN instead, and this was approved by the Queen. No reasons for the choice are given. However, in view of the choice of QUEEN ELIZABETH for CVA01 it might have been a sign of the Senior Service's loyalty to the Monarch.
I rediscovered an old novel from the late 60s by the Defence Journalist Chapman Pincher called THE PENTHOUSE CONSPIRATORS in which the Russians drive a wedge between the British and a new US President who wants to fit electronic locks to all NATO nuclear missiles. He names the four submarines RETALIATION, RESOLVE, REPRISAL and RETRIBUTION.
Hennessy's book also examine alternatives to the submarines that were looked at before the four R boats were chosen.
Well worth the money
 
A very appropiate name for one of the Resolution class SSBNs would have been HMS Rhadamanthus. This was the name proposed for the lead battlecruiser version of the Royal Sovereign class battleships from WWI. But battleship orders 6 and 7 (Renown and Repulse) were built as battlecruisers instead of a new order (and order 8: Resistance was cancelled).

What makes Rhadamanthus so appropiate is that its namesake was, in Greek myth, a son of Zeus (so therefore a nephew of Poseidon) and a judge of the dead in the underworld. His most famous judgement was that in self defence you should suffer no penalty for killings or injuries inflicted. Four counts of appropriateness for an SSBN apart from starting with R.
 
Abraham Gubler said:
A very appropiate name for one of the Resolution class SSBNs would have been HMS Rhadamanthus. This was the name proposed for the lead battlecruiser version of the Royal Sovereign class battleships from WWI.
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Not quite; Rhadamanthus was Fisher's pet name for the design, just as his Onslaught type became Courageous, Glorious and Furious, Unapproachable became the Invincible class, and Untakeable became Dreadnought. You might think of it as akin to the SR-71 being developed under the codename OXCART - nobody would ever claim that was the official name of the aircraft.

As an aside, Incomparable was a 16-inch gunned fast battleship with diesel engines and heavy armour, not the 20-inch gunned battlecruiser often discussed. The light battlecruiser with excessively large guns was Citadel, and proposed with 18-inch guns.
 
RLBH said:
Rhadamanthus was Fisher's pet name for the design,
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It was on the design documentation and I'm sure at some stage the name was proposed for a ship that should actually be built. It may have been an unlikely choice to progress (and known as such) via the naming committees process to Royal approval for many reasons. However this situation can be accurately explained as:

Abraham Gubler said:
This was the name proposed for the lead battlecruiser version of the Royal Sovereign class battleships from WWI.
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One doesn't necessarily have the inclination to, nor should be expected to, mention everything about a particular point of interest.

So a "not quite" is not a deserved response in this case IMHO. Which doesn't invalidate the rest of your post and the worthwhile information provided within.
 
RLBH said:
As an aside, Incomparable was a 16-inch gunned fast battleship with diesel engines and heavy armour, not the 20-inch gunned battlecruiser often discussed. The light battlecruiser with excessively large guns was Citadel, and proposed with 18-inch guns.
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I've only ever seen Incomparable described as the 20 inch armed battlecruiser, what is your source? The 16 inch armed diesel powered battleship sound intriguing, any further details and again what is your source?

Thanks and regards.
 
JohnR said:
I've only ever seen Incomparable described as the 20 inch armed battlecruiser, what is your source? The 16 inch armed diesel powered battleship sound intriguing, any further details and again what is your source?
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There are a series of posts under the username Irishopinion on the All the World's Battlecruisers discussion forums about the subject. He's done extensive original research in the archived papers of Jackie Fisher with the intent of publishing a book on Fisher and his thinking.

The relevant post is here, but reading any of his posts - fortunately concentrated in the first two or three pages of the board! - will pay dividends. It seems that Fisher is a much misunderstood figure.
 
Thanks for the link, it is really interesting.

The mention of Fishers interest in diesels stirred a memory in me, that he was also interested in Gas Turbines. I can't remember where I read it and I'm intrigued to know if they were possible in the early 20th Century.

Regards.
 
The first better than break-even gas turbine was made around 1903, so they were possible but not quite useful until a bit later.
 
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The "gas turbines" involved SEEMS to have been a way of using energy from the flue gases from the boilers rather than directly fuelled. The G3 Ships Cover includes a reference to the possible use of Brown-Boveri "gas turbines".

Considering the subject this is posted on - the G3s Ships Cover also included the proposal to use the side protection as a sort of ballast tanks where water could be let in, or blown out, so as to let the ship be low when entering combat to improve ballistic protection and afterwards to ride properly.
 

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