Alvis projects

Grey Havoc said:

The Rapier Laserfire system was an attempt to return to the original low cost concept of the Rapier. Program start was in the early 1980s, and it may have had some direct relationship to the
Sabre ASM/ATGM program, itself begun in the late 1970s. It utilised a Lidar system in place of the normal optical tracker. The system was successfully tested in 1984 but procurement plans for the system on the Alvis Stormer platform were derailed, as with so many other projects, by the need to pour resources into the disaster that was the Challenger MBT program. If the LLADS had been procured, it likely would have received elements of the late '80s Darkfire upgrade, either on the production line or as a retrofit.

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Foo Fighter said:

Grey Havoc said:

The Rapier Laserfire system was an attempt to return to the original low cost concept of the Rapier. Program start was in the early 1980s, and it may have had some direct relationship to the
Sabre ASM/ATGM program, itself begun in the late 1970s. It utilised a Lidar system in place of the normal optical tracker. The system was successfully tested in 1984 but procurement plans for the system on the Alvis Stormer platform were derailed, as with so many other projects, by the need to pour resources into the disaster that was the Challenger MBT program. If the LLADS had been procured, it likely would have received elements of the late '80s Darkfire upgrade, either on the production line or as a retrofit.

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So, what exactly makes the Challenger MBT program a disaster? Any facts to back that up?

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Grey Havoc said:

...and it may have had some direct relationship to the Sabre ASM/ATGM program, itself begun in the late 1970s. It utilised a Lidar system in place of the normal optical tracker. The system was successfully tested in 1984 but procurement plans for the system on the Alvis Stormer platform were derailed, as with so many other projects, by the need to pour resources into the disaster that was the Challenger MBT program. If the LLADS had been procured, it likely would have received elements of the late '80s Darkfire upgrade, either on the production line or as a retrofit.

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JFC Fuller said:

Grey Havoc said:

...and it may have had some direct relationship to the Sabre ASM/ATGM program, itself begun in the late 1970s. It utilised a Lidar system in place of the normal optical tracker. The system was successfully tested in 1984 but procurement plans for the system on the Alvis Stormer platform were derailed, as with so many other projects, by the need to pour resources into the disaster that was the Challenger MBT program. If the LLADS had been procured, it likely would have received elements of the late '80s Darkfire upgrade, either on the production line or as a retrofit.

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I'm not sure where you got this from.

1) Laserfire was essentially the original Rapier system, retaining the SACLOS missile guidance system, just with the EO tracker used for target tracking during engagement replaced with a LIDAR system. It used standard Rapier missiles. The Sabre used a laser seeker installed in a missile and was intended as a fast-jet launched anti-armour weapon to AST.1227 (but it was rejected in favour of the Hunting Engineering VJ291 - itself cancelled in 1981) and was not related to Laserfire aside from common missile airframe and propulsion components from the Rapier missile.

2) Laserfire was not intended for the British Army, it was a privately funded venture intended for export - primarily for non-NATO countries, so the Challenger programme had no impact on it.

3) Which LLADS are you referring to?

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