Midget sub found at Swedish offshore waters

muttbutt

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Bit of breaking news today. Swedish military has said they have found the wreck of a modern military minisub off the coast. Here's the link in Swedish with some vid. They said it has Cyrillic writing on it....probably Australian then ;D .
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/frammande-ubat-hittad-i-svenskt-vatten/

Some google translated gibberish.

Foreign submarine found in Swedish waters Published July 27, 2015 19:03 Here are the submarine found in Swedish waters.
The discovery is a mystery: the wreck has no visible injuries, and found near the Swedish coast.
Armed Forces confirms that the material from the finding place right now analyzed.
- This indicates that there is a secret mission that has gone wrong, says Tomas Ries, senior lecturer in strategy and security policy at the National Defence University.
 
Very interesting, hope we see more soon, their press release is claiming 'Russian':


http://www.oceanexplorer.se


This is the same team who found the Baltic sea 'UFO' or 'Millenium Falcon' feature...
 
pics and video

http://www.expressen.se/tv/nyheter/inrikes/de-hittade-ubatsvrak-pa-svenskt-vatten/

P3l1Ya8.png
 
Well now that makes things interesting. For their sake I hope the crew made it out.
 
They've found a small submarine wreck off the Swedish coast.

Not a lot of material yet.

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/expert-allting-tyder-pa-att-det-ar-catfish/
 
Speculation now amongst some folk is that it's actually a WWI era sub that was sunk in a collision in 1916...
 
looks much too fresh for that.


Thanks to everyone who has given the heads up on this. My first reaction is that I don't recognize it from the sail although some details look familiar, if I can figure out where I've seen them. I have a non-Ru theory but will only share if better images emerge as that sort of speculation is jumped upon by certain spectators. I DO believe that it's Russian at this time.


Topic on covert shores... http://www.hisutton.com/Russian%20Submarine%20found%20in%20Swedish%20waters%20-%20to%20be%20updated.html
UxENiy7.jpg



If it is some form of Piranha, I'd say Piranha-M relative:
HoOhG8n.jpg
 
I was hoping you'd pop by CS B)

About the freshness of the wreck people have mentioned that that area is well known for keeping wrecks in good nick. We'll have to see...if it's what some think The Som (catfish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Som-class_submarine) they should leave it there if it's new they should raise it with out question.
 
covert_shores said:
. I have a non-Ru theory but will only share if better images emerge as that sort of speculation is jumped upon by certain spectators.
Oh you tease me man.... :'(
 
yes i can see the passing resemblance to SOM, but it doesn't look like a perfect match to me. plus these guys are shipwreck finders, they'd surely know if it was SOM already.
 
covert_shores said:
yes i can see the passing resemblance to SOM, but it doesn't look like a perfect match to me. plus these guys are shipwreck finders, they'd surely know if it was SOM already.
Publicity city...oops well it was a Russian sub, just a hundred year old one. Their name is all over the place today you can't buy that sort of exposure.
 
...
 

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No sign of damage from a collision, and no sign of a 37mm gun mounting that I can see.
 
It does look old fashioned at first glance but unless the schematics / models of Catfish (SOM) are incorrect, this isn't her. I can see the likeness though.

SOM: http://wunderwafe.ru/Magazine/MK/1998_04/Draw/100.jpg
http://cdn.topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2012-02/1330400393_1258271339_som.gif
https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/fotosergs/album/142421/view/467277
 
covert_shores said:
yes i can see the passing resemblance to SOM, but it doesn't look like a perfect match to me. plus these guys are shipwreck finders, they'd surely know if it was SOM already.


You'd think so, wouldn't you? And, lo, here's a thread by a fellow with the user name Peter Lindberg, who just happens to share a name with one of the Ocean X divers, asking about Som on UBoat.net last year.


http://uboat.net/forums/read.php?23,90033,90033#msg-90033


Yep, it looks to me as though they know if exactly what they've found, but they're trying to spin up some publicity by pretending that it might be something else. Finding a hundred year old Tsarist sub would be a one-day wonder -- finding a possible secret Soviet spy sub is a major TV special.
 
Seems that it's definitely Som, re-discovered again with public fanfare
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1403732.html
 

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Well such publicity stunts are not just unprofessional, but also undermine swedes pisition in future submarine incidents. The lady playing 'me too' with the Dutch boat images during the last scare was similar except at least she was ignorant. Muppets.

Still only 80% id'd though, the details are still not matching 100% by my eye but haven't yet found definitive photos of catfish's conning tower.
 
http://militaryhonors.sid-hill.us/history/gwmjh_archive/Documents/Som.html

"Som" = "Catfish" (early "Fulton")

The submarine "Fulton" was launched on June 2, 1901 at the shipyard of Louis Nixon (USA). On April 28, 1902 "Fulton" left New York for Washington accompanied by the steamship "Norfolk." Right at the beginning of this voyage, there was an explosion, and some members of crew were injured. The boat was not damaged. Demonstrations for marketing purposes continued until 1904. Under the certificate of the contemporaries this boat " had many advantages... She(it) during eight and a half of hours has passed ninety âåðñò in such strong storm, that the sailors had themselves to hold on to the vessel, since they were not capable of staying on their feet. Thus the boat was at sea about 12 hours ". On April 28, 1904, the Neva factory, and a representative of the "Holland Torpedo Boat Company", signed a contract for the purchase the "Fulton" with delivery in a ready and serviceable condition without torpedoes at one of ports of the Baltic sea. On May 31, 1904, by the order of Sea department, this boat received the name "Som". She left America on the steamship "Menatik" under the name " the steam boiler " on June 13, 1904 and arrived in Kronstadt on July 1 to address the directors of the Neva factory. From Kronstadt, the "cargo" was sent to the Neva factory in St. Petersburg, where the accumulators and other mechanisms removed for transportation were re-installed. The re-assembly of the boat was finished on September 6. Lieutenant Trubetskoy was assigned as the commander of the boat. On September 26, the submarine "Som" arrived in B'erke-Zund, where the trial runs were carried out. The commission declared the boat as suitable " for a coastal defense ". On October 10 the submarine arrived in the Sea channel, where crew training began.

On November 15, the submarine was shipped on a special railway car to Vladivostok, where the submarine arrived on December 29, 1904. Final assembly was completed in Vladivostok where she was tested and ready for navigation on February 1, 1905, however her battle use was delayed because of the absence of torpedoes. The Russian ministry for submarines of foreign manufacture, ordered 75 torpedoes of caliber 45 mm and length 3.55 m from the Shvartscopf factory in Berlin. On February 9, Japanese ships came close to Vladivostok. "Som" was ordered to put to sea and to attack the enemy, but because of the absence of torpedoes the order was cancelled. During this period the boat fulfilled battle tasks, took part in experiments on overcoming antisubmarine nets.

The commander of the submarine "Som" in the official report wrote: " on March 27 was removed from an anchor, submerged to a depth of 16 ft and, with a speed of 6 units, broke through a net. The boat began to rise quickly, not listening horizontal rudders, but, when speed was increased to 7 units, she began to obey rudders. Having surfaced, it appeared, that I had broken through the net and all it together with floats was dragged behind ... ". Torpedoes arrived in Vladivostok on March 29. The battle activity of the submarine "Som", as well as other submarines, was reduced to reconnaissance service, conducting investigation and protection of the coast in area of Vladivostok. The submarine "Som" in 6 months of battle actions cruised 1318 miles above water and 93 miles under water, travelling up to 120 miles from Vladivostok. The greatest stay at sea was 8 days, 16 hours 35 minutes of which was under water, and the greatest duration of stay under water was 1.5 hours. During this time, the Russian submarines in area of Vladivostok encountered Japanese military ships only once. It took place on April 28, 1905, when the submarines "Delfin", "Kasatka" and "Som" were in area of a bay of Transformation located 70 miles from Vladivostok.

The submarine "Som", lagged a little behind from others, and found 2 Japanese torpedo-boats. While submerging to begin her attack "Som" was spotted and attacked by one of the torpedo-boats. The submarine was not hit. Having plunged to a depth of 12 meters, "Som" began escape maneuvers. After several minutes, she rose to periscope depth and the commander saw the torpedo-boats leaving. The boat surfaced to continue the attack, but an unexpected fog hid the torpedo-boats.

In December 1914, the submarines "Som" and "Schuka" were shipped on railway cars along with teams sent from Sevastopol, where they arrived in first half of January. "Som" and "Schuka" made the trip from Sevastopol to Odessa, where they were part of the system of the port defenses. "Som" and "Schuka" together, patrolled the distant approaches to port, until July, 1915.

In July 1915, "Som" was shipped on a railway car to the Baltic port of Petrograd, and then to a new place of basing - base Mariehami. "Som" repeatedly left on patrol at dawn, returned to base at dusk. On May 10, 1916 at 4 o'clock in the morning "Som" which was patrolling in the area of Olandsgaf, and was lost in an underwater collision with the Swedish steamship "Ingermanland". As the captain of a steamship has testified, he noticed a periscope, towering 1 m above the water, at a distance of 150 m. The boat went by on a parallel course, and then turned toward the steamship. Having decided, that it wanted to examine them, the captain stopped the ship. The periscope suddenly disappeared under water, and the boat struck the steamship below the waterline. The submarine was not seen again. In addition to the submarine, her crew - 2 officers and 16 bottom grades were lost.
 
Ocean X says the submarine was found somewhere off the Swedish east coast. http://www.oceanexplorer.se/
Approximately 20 metres long, 3 metres wide - that's broadly similar to the Som-data from http://militaryhonors.sid-hill.us/history/gwmjh_archive/Documents/Som.html

Length, m 19.8
Width, m 3.6
Draught, m 2.9
Displacement surface / underwater, t 105 / 124
Capacity of engines surface / underwater, h.p. 1@160 / 1@70
Speed surface / underwater, kts. 8.5 / 6.0
Range surface / underwater, miles 500 / 30
Depth of immersing, m 30

Swedish newspaper Expressen is slightly more specific in saying it was found off the east coast of 'Mellansverige' (central Sweden)
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/frammande-ubat-hittad-i-svenskt-vatten/
 
The location where Som went down, 'Olandsgaf' might be a transliteration of 'Ålands hav' - the Sea of Åland, the strait between Åland (Finnish territory) and the Swedish mainland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_%C3%85land
In 1916, Som was based in Mariehamn, a town on Åland.
 
I can understand wreck hunters being cagey re location. But the approx location of catfish must be known, within say 10 miles. So they must know whether it's her or not. Plus they could read the Russian letters which they appear to be keeping to themselves (the letter shown is used in words like 'object'.


If she had torpedoes aboard when she went down then the wreck might be quite unstable.
 
Wikimedia image of Fulton, later Som:
Fulton1901-1904.jpg
 
Cyrillic letter Yer (hard sign) in СОМЪ name
 

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I had to head off early last night, but I was going to say that the released sonar image reminded me a bit of a line drawing (can't find it at the moment unfortunately) of an old Soviet (1980s) SO minisub for seabed operations.
 
So it even has the bloody name on it... That's it then.

Meanwhile from one of my Swedish contacts: "Everyone who a) imagines the swedish military didn't know exactly where it was for quite a while, or b) imagines it is modern is just embarrassing themselves"


So, who is going to take the next sub scare seriously. Awaiting Putin's puerile putdown (PPP)
 
covert_shores said:
So, who is going to take the next sub scare seriously. Awaiting Putin's puerile putdown (PPP)

It's proof that the Russians have had claim to that piece of territory for a century now. When can we expect to see the Russian military come in and annex the whole region?
 
Never. The Swedes scared the last lot away by offering them surströmming for breakfast. And lunch. And dinner.
 
Arjen said:
Never. The Swedes scared the last lot away by offering them surströmming for breakfast. And lunch. And dinner.

Oh My God, is that stuff not on Geneva List of Forbidden Weapons ?!

if you not understand, surströmming is consider the most discussing Food in the World
it actual Fish not quite rotten, more fermented with extrem strongest overwhelming odor and Taste.

informal the reason why Hitler never invaded Sweden, they threaten to drop open cans with surströmming over Germany...
 
Michel Van said:
Arjen said:
Never. The Swedes scared the last lot away by offering them surströmming for breakfast. And lunch. And dinner.

Oh My God, is that stuff not on Geneva List of Forbidden Weapons ?!

if you not understand, surströmming is consider the most discussing Food in the World
it actual Fish not quite rotten, more fermented with extrem strongest overwhelming odor and Taste.

informal the reason why Hitler never invaded Sweden, they threaten to drop open cans with surströmming over Germany...
Yeah if anyone needs video to back up this description, here you go.
 

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