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Author Topic: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics  (Read 80063 times)

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2006, 02:16:53 pm »
Yes, you are correct.

Phazotron museum labelling sucks, apparently.
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Offline mrdetonator

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2006, 11:33:30 pm »
Yes, you are correct.

Phazotron museum labelling sucks, apparently.
The picture doesn`t show the Sapfir-23MLx either. According to manuals both radars the 323E and the N-003 share the same design where the trasmitter/receiver waveguide is placed in the middle of the antenna.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2006, 12:07:09 am »
Well- the Sapfir-25 definitely has the offset feed;

http://www.missiles.ru/_foto/MuzeyFAZOTRON/faz14.jpg

The antenna of the radar posted above looks just like the Sapfir-25, except smaller.
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Offline crossiathh

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2006, 04:06:09 am »
BTW, the yellow wave guide on top is part of the, so called, "compensation channel"... Normally extend above the fixed part of the radar antenna, except the Sapfir-23DIII and Sapfir-23E. There it is directed to the moveable part of the antenna.

Got some new information. While with the rp-22 and the sapfir-23MLx the "compensation channel" is a receiver the Sapfir-23DIII/E has a transmitter with two emitter directed to the moveable reflector of the antenna.
@mrdetonator: Could you please double-check this.

Offline mrdetonator

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2006, 06:13:12 am »
After browsing through my archive I found a photo clearly showing this type of antenna mounted on czechoslovak Mig-23ML(variant A).  Gentlemen, I give up.....   :-[ :-[
« Last Edit: January 31, 2006, 06:34:29 am by mrdetonator »

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2006, 06:59:27 am »
Don't worry Martin- its enough to drive anyone mad!

I think on this occasion you were mistaken- that or the manual was wrong!
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Offline mrdetonator

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2006, 11:03:17 am »
I think on this occasion you were mistaken- that or the manual was wrong!
the document is not describing the antenna in detail, that`s all. :(

Offline Vadifon

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2006, 11:32:03 am »
Quote
The Sapfir-23E uses the mono-pulse technique to track a single target.[
If on picture Sapfir-23 in the description it is written that it has the latent conic scanning

Offline crossiathh

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2006, 11:51:21 am »
@Vadifon

Could you please provide the picture with higher resolution which would makes it possible to read the descriptions?! Thanks.

Offline mrdetonator

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2006, 12:20:33 pm »
@Vadifon

Could you please provide the picture with higher resolution which would makes it possible to read the descriptions?! Thanks.

it gives only basic descriptions, from top to bottom:
1. moveable antenna part with gyro-stabill. in roll
2. combined waveguide
3. compensation channel waveguide
4. fixed parabolic mirror
5. inspection openings
6. fixed antenna base

1. moveable antenna part with gyro-stabill. in roll
2. combined waveguide
3. compensation channel waveguide
4. moveable cone mirror
5. fixed antenna base

Offline Vadifon

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2006, 12:27:50 pm »
@Vadifon

Could you please provide the picture with higher resolution which would makes it possible to read the descriptions?! Thanks.
http://www.vvsussr.com/vadifon/Cassegrain.rar

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2006, 02:46:23 pm »
Thanks Vadifon. Quick English version attached...
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Offline AHMAD RUSHDI

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2006, 09:34:12 am »
I will speak about the radars delivered with the Mig-23 variants to Iraq (Mig-23MS, MF, and ML). The radar delivered with the Mig-23MS was the Almaz-23 which was the same delivered with the mig-21bis. That radar was good for nothing; just to summarize. The radar delivered with the Mig-23MF was a Sapfir-23E but interestingly had no capability to launch the R-13M or the R-60. This is an interesting point since the radar mentioned in the second reply by overscan, does have the capability to launch the am weapons. The radar supplied with the Mig-23ML was the Sapfir-23M and not the NOO3. Again it had no capability to launch the R-13M. The technical documentation of the Sapfir-23E was very meager; the main technical documentation was for the Sapfir-23M radar. Here the PRF is 1 KHz and 5 KHz. The quasi-continuous frequency is 100 KHz; it is used only in guiding the R-23R and R-24R Semi Active Radar Homing Missiles. The difference between the western approach and the eastern approach is that the western (not always; the French didnít adopt this approach in the Matra Super-530 missile) approach use a pure carrier while the eastern approach was to use high repetition pulse. The Soviets never used the western solution for guidance; in fact they criticize it in their scientific literature.   

Offline Dilbert

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2006, 12:47:29 pm »
Welcome to the forum!

The quasi-continuous frequency is 100 KHz; it is used only in guiding the R-23R and R-24R Semi Active Radar Homing Missiles.

Why "only" for missile guidance?  Is it not possible to also perform target tracking, with quasi-continuous illumination?  I thought that quasi-continuous was just a Russian word for high pulse repetition frequency (HPRF).  Western and Russian MiG-29 radars use HPRF for normal tracking all the time, why not MiG-23?

Also - why is a radar necessary at all, to employ R-13 and R-60 heat-seeking missiles?  Even MiG-21 and aircraft like Su-25 without any radar can use them, no?

Offline Pit

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Re: Mikoyan MiG-23 Avionics
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2006, 12:51:44 pm »
Hi Ahmad!, welcome to the forum!  :D

Dilbert, I think is something with the stores managment system of Iraq's MiG-23MF and ML (SUO) not being capable to handle the R-13M and R-60 (MF) and R-13M (ML) and not directly related to the radar itself.

I hope that Ahmad could provide us interesting accounts of Sapfir-23's actions of the IrAF like he did on ACIG.org for the benefit of all people here  ;)