Possible problems with publishing aviation stuff

Jemiba

Jemiba

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Not sure , that the cover won't be a bit problematic for the German market.
Perhaps it should be modified, or at least get a sticker ?
 

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Ups, I didn't realized about this detail.

Could it be considered delictive for German laws?
 
pometablava said:
Could it be considered delictive for German laws?
Click to expand...

On models of German WW II aircraft that symbol has to be covered, if they are shown publicly.
Its use is only allowed for reasons of "civic enlightenment", art or science. And if, or if not a
book (or model) meets those conditions, always is open to question, I think. Quite a lot of people
have lost in court proceedings in the past and for example modellers, who had ordered such decals
were sometimes "invited" to the customs agency, or those symbols were simply cout out from the
decal sheet.
§86 Abs.1 Nr.4 StGB may be a little bit difficult and, BTW, not even the WW II Finnish markings are
allowed to be used publicly. ( § 86 Abs. 2 Satz 2 StGB). :-\
 
Sorry guys. Cover design it the publihser's privilege.
I have just provided the aircrafs drawings.
My guess is that this is marketing decision to increase sales in US market.
Personally, I would prefer to sell less and avoid this type of publicity.
 
Jemiba said:
§86 Abs.1 Nr.4 StGB may be a little bit difficult and, BTW, not even the WW II Finnish markings are
allowed to be used publicly. ( § 86 Abs. 2 Satz 2 StGB). :-\
Click to expand...

Although - not to get too off topic - the Finnish Swastika's were adopted from Eric von Rosen who was friends with Hermann Göring (and tied through marriage), adopted the symbol as part of the germanic romantic movement, and introduced it after it was already popular with the Nazi party... so the symbol isn't entirely unrelated.

One part of me wants to see these symbols suppressed, another part of me wants to see historical fidelity (and also respect the thousands of years of pinwheel shapes in cultures around the world). Anyway, difficult legal quagmire there...
 
I remain astounded that the swastika is still so controversial as to be illegal... and yet the Hammer and Sickle are "cool."

Kill a few dozen million people and you're a bad guy. Kill a *hundred* million and you're a god to the hipsters.
 
Avimimus said:
One part of me wants to see these symbols suppressed
Click to expand...

If the attitude, that stould (and stands) behind this symbol could be eliminated, I would agree.
But I'm pretty certain, that this won't work. What, if all Nazis would come to an agreement to
utilise a stylized red rose as their symbol ? Would we have to rearrange our gardens ?

Orionblamblam said:
... and yet the Hammer and Sickle are "cool."
Click to expand...

Hammer and sickle principally were a similar case, as this symbol was used by the communist party.
But as it stood for the Soviet Union as well (a geographic term) banning it proved to be more difficult
and so that case was softened over the time.

But we really are drifting OT, Justo of course is beyond any doubt and quite probably sales prospects
for his latest work won't be seriously hurt. At least, I severely hope so !
If one of our German members will have to fetch his book from the customs office (that's what happens
regularly to modellers ordering decal sheets with that symbol ...), perhaps he would tell us ?
 
Jemiba said:
Avimimus said:
One part of me wants to see these symbols suppressed
Click to expand...
If the attitude, that stould (and stands) behind this symbol could be eliminated, I would agree.But I'm pretty certain, that this won't work. What, if all Nazis would come to an agreement to utilise a stylized red rose as their symbol ? Would we have to rearrange our gardens ?
Click to expand...

True, it is largely symbolic. A symbolic response to the use of a symbol.


Orionblamblam said:
I remain astounded that the swastika is still so controversial as to be illegal... and yet the Hammer and Sickle are "cool."
Click to expand...


Or the Fasces for that matter - which appears on the U.S. Quarter, the Lincoln memorial and numerous other sites... that should probably be changed (at least if you don't want people calling the U.S. Fascist to be *technically* correct :) ).


Anyway, Justo - sorry for the tangent and congrats on the book. I'm looking forward to getting a copy (it was flying wings that got me interested in aviation)!
 
Jemiba said:
What, if all Nazis would come to an agreement to
utilise a stylized red rose as their symbol ? Would we have to rearrange our gardens ?
Click to expand...


It seems so:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/mystery-of-nazi-swastikas-in-the-forests-a-909726.html


If one of our German members will have to fetch his book from the customs office (that's what happens
regularly to modellers ordering decal sheets with that symbol ...), perhaps he would tell us ?
Click to expand...

It's an old and tired topic, but it's weird and laughable that governments think that by making life slightly difficult for people building model kits they can somehow escape either the sins of the past or the problems of the future. Murderous tyrannical systems of governance are forever popping up regardless of the specific symbols. And it's not like people who think that the Nazis were neato-keen somehow will give up their fandom if they are banned from displaying a specific symbol.

Anyway, banning the swastika from a book about WWII-era German aircraft is dumb. Similarly, the publishers who included it on the cover were dumb for not foreseeing this. On the gripping hand, perhaps the publishers were smart... this *might* cause a minor controversy in Germany, which would have the effect of generating free publicity. Even if in the end it harms sales in Germany, a hypothetical German governmental tantrum might drive up sales in, say, France or Britain or Russia or the US.
 
Orionblamblam said:
I remain astounded that the swastika is still so controversial as to be illegal... and yet the Hammer and Sickle are "cool."

Kill a few dozen million people and you're a bad guy. Kill a *hundred* million and you're a god to the hipsters.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. Plus the doctrine behind it is still actively pursued by millions. Also, the svastika has existed for centuries as a symbol of peace, and also been used by Finland as a national emblem even before the Germans did and with no connection to them. And yet their swastika should be edited out, too?

There ought to be a difference for the law between accurate representation of historical items and active promotion of hateful doctrines.

If a worldwide group of pedophiles started using a penis as an emblem, should we all get our dicks chopped off? ;D
 
Perhaps a more interesting case is the use of the Wolfsangel in Ukraine. It is a Germanic ?forestry? symbol that doesn't have a Slavic cultural origin - at least prior to the 1940s.

Maybe "publicly displaying a symbol used by Fascists, outside of a temple or museum or publicly displaying a symbol, while otherwise behaving so as to indicate that one is holding strongly fascists or racist beliefs" should be illegal? I bet common-law could handle that (not sure about other law systems).
 
Avimimus said:
Maybe "publicly displaying a symbol used by Fascists, outside of a temple or museum or publicly displaying a symbol, while otherwise behaving so as to indicate that one is holding strongly fascists or racist beliefs" should be illegal?
Click to expand...

But why? Sure, fascism has a bad history, but making it illegal to hold those beliefs and express them? How is that any better than fascism itself?

If someone is a racist or a fascist or a socialist or communist or collectivist of any stripe, you don't want them hiding it. You want it out in the open so you know to avoid them and not do business with them.
 
What about the WWII Italian 3 fasces roundel - is that also banned ?
 
British and German WWI "nazi" planes here
 

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Jemiba said:
Not sure , that the cover won't be a bit problematic for the German market.
Perhaps it should be modified, or at least get a sticker ?
Click to expand...
Has the image been updated since this thread started? I can see no swastikas in it, only perfectly acceptable Luftwaffe crosses. Or, am I missing something?
 
This is a problem that aviation artists have to deal with as well. Take a look through the German aircraft paintings in this site dedicated to the work of Shigeo Koike. Most of them were done for the Fuji Heavy Industries annual calendar - marketed in Japan - but a few were done for box top art for kits sold around the world. The black or gray diamond suggests the shape of the symbol, but is not accurate.

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/airplane/museum/Ecl-pln2.html
 
In the distant past, model kits simply omitted the swastikas from the decal sheet entirely; a few put regular crosses (like the ones on fuselage and wings) there instead.

Recently, though, a lot of kits include the swastikas on the decal sheet, but in several pieces that you have to apply separately to wind up with them on the airplane. So there are no swastikas on the printed decal sheet (or the instruction sheet), but you can wind up with them on the actual model.

As a Jew, I detest the Nazi's use of the symbol, of course. But as a historian, I fully support its use on reproductions of actual aircraft, whether full size or models, that carried them during the war. I subscribe to the philosophy, that the European governments should consider, that "those who forget the past (or ban it) are condemned to repeat it."

And don't forget about the Franco-American Lafayette Escadrille: if you look closely, the Indian headdress in their logo has a swastika on it!
 
gatoraptor said:
And don't forget about the Franco-American Lafayette Escadrille: if you look closely, the Indian headdress in their logo has a swastika on it!
Click to expand...

Indeed!! That's very well observed, I'd forgotten this one.
 

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