N: Friedman british battleships

ford_tempo

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
31 January 2011
Messages
78
Reaction score
8
Found today on amazon.uk.

forthcoming:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-British-Battleship-Norman-Friedman/dp/1848322259/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=098XDDZ0GTKKN2G5BXQG

best

F_T
 
I have pre-ordered this out of curiosity as much as anything else. It is unclear the extent to which he will cover un-built ships (though his works normally do) and it will be interesting to see what new material he brings to the table. Raven & Roberts ("British Battleships of World War Two") is currently the benchmark on this topic and its a very high bar indeed, other even more detailed pieces have appeared in the Warship series, notably the wonderful multi-part piece about the evolution of the G3/N3 designs.

Certainly one area worthy of study that I have not seen anywhere yet, but which I have found in the archives at Kew, is proposed modernisations of the KGV class post-war and the planned roles of battleships within the post-war fleet that were put forward in 1944/5.

On a related topic, does anybody know of there is to be a Warship 2015?
 
Which years Warships featured the G3/N3 development, I'm am gradually trying to build up a full set of the books, and they sound like years I should prioritize.

Regards.
 
IIRC they only started being books in 2001/02. If this is the case, then I'm almost sure I have the full set and I can go digging in a quiet moment tonight.
 
Just a note that the book has been published as had shipping notice from Amazon
 
I'm receiving it this Friday (NZ time) . Ill post up a quick overview if no one else does before Friday. Its a hard book to order on Amazon.U.S is slow so ordered through UK site. I'm hoping it covers Vanguard.
 
.

A VERY, VERY Initial review of Friedman's "The British Battleship 1906-1946
.

First, the "health warning" - this is based on an INITIAL 2-hour skim through. I ONLY really looked at the parts covering from the Nelson class onwards and three-quarters of an hour was just looking at the appropriate notes (!) MUCH, much more reading is required (and recommended).

-------

Right, the first thing to say is that this book is DENSE, there is an awful lot in the book and the notes are fascinating - I went from one to another just reading and learning (and I regard myself as well read on this subject).

The book is in Friedman's normal style, with a good selection of photos (a large minority of which I had not seen, but maybe others have). There are numerous drawings and some colour "as builts" - more later.

The text covers general design matters, plus specific classes (initial design and modifications) with bits of politics, strategy, etc.... where relevant so the book SEEMS to cover most matters (much more reading required) for someone who want a single comprehensive book on the matter.

I had some matters which I "wanted" to see, either things that needed clarification or things that I hadn't found. Thankfully most of my initial list SEEM to be included. Friedman deals with the Nelson's manoeuvrability explaining that experience found them perfectly acceptable. He explains the actual decision for choosing the heavy external "vertical" belt for the KGVs over the extended internal angled belt. He covers the proposed mods to Nelson with US 5-inch turrets (both 5-inch/54s and 5-inch/38s) and indeed (MUCH TO MY PLEASURE) he has found a small photo of a the proposed 8 x 5"/38 as a wind tunnel model, it is small, but should inspire many modellers. (Unfortunately he doesn't SEEM to mention the proposed mods to Warspite to upgrade the AA, including an additional 4 x twin 4-inch turrets (making a total of 8 twins) plus better directors and more light AA.) Another long sought for query (the layout of the 10 4.5-inch BD turrets in the initial KGV designs) is answered by Friedman saying that they all above the shelter deck "as per Renown".

The KGV section is concise (but other books cover the detail, but the 1938 Lions and Vanguard are well covered (I couldn't find a drawing of the 1942 Lion however ????????). One oddity is that the lengthy discussions regarding the placement of Vanguard's Y-turret and the problems of hull width, side protection width and hydrodynamic efficiency are mostly glossed over.

There are plenty of pages given over to other designs and DESERVEDLY (considering the amount of work that was put into them, and their consequences for the KGVs and Lions) the various 12-inch designs from post-Nelson to (just) before the KGVs (indeed the KGVs are almost just an upsizing exercise). Anyone interested in the evolution of designs and the various by-ways of design should find this fascinating.

So, all that leads to a really good book. Now, however to more good and, possibly, bad bits, the drawings.

First, to be positive, there are lots of drawings and they SEEM to cover most of what people want. However they are almost all reproduced across the single page meaning that they are reasonably small, but basic layouts and important fittings can be located. There are a few exceptions to that rule. The front and end papers have drawings going over the gutted and as they are onto the hardcovers they can fold out pretty flat - these cover Neptune, as built, side and plan and Vanguard, 1954, again side and plan. In the middle of the book is a colour section of side-view as-builts in various types of fold-outs - these are mini works of art. There are single pages of Canada, St Vincent, Barham and Warspite (a bit small for me, but others may like them better). New Zealand, Courageous, Rodney and KGV all get an "across the gutter" two page spread - they are large enough, and lovely to me. Princess Royal, Iron Duke, Repulse and Renown get a three page layout - one "across the gutter" pair which extends across a gate fold extra "page" (the Repulse and refitted Renown are reproduced above/below each other which is very useful). This arrangement allows the centre-fold of the book to be a four-page (with the middle two being "across the gutter") of HMS Valiant. So, beautiful but odd.

That's the good, the poor (I would hardly say bad) is that the simple line drawings seem a little odd to me, a little grey and "fuzzy"..... this SEEMS to be caused by a combination of light printing (either the ink chosen or the weight of line being rather small (????????) with the dread modern curse of "pixellation" the curves seem to be coming out as, mostly line with small steps. It isn't awful, but it is a shame for model makers.

DON'T let that last bit put you off, the book is a marvel, and it really does contain a vast wealth of detail. I look forward to a good couple of weeks to read it cover-to-cover. Buy it, it's well worth the ridiculous small sum it cost.

.
 
I too have only had an hour to read through it; I will need at least 5 or 6 to cover this book in depth. I can't wait to read it cover to cover. I too LOVED the color reproductions of Admiralty blueprints in the middle of the book and agree on the small plan drawings (really scrap views) which could be larger but this truly is a MAGNIFICENT work of art, very much the British answer to his book on U.S battleships. A superb book that I thoroughly enjoyed for taking a very thorough conceptual approach in discussing why various design decisions were made. Ultimately British Battleship 1919-1945 by R.A Burt is the superior book for technical details in that it covers the KGV and Nelsons and indeed Hood in more detail but that book is largely silent on Vanguard where this book at 20 pages to the topic alone truly shines. Also Burt's book, whilst a technical masterpiece doesn't discuss the operational experiences of the ships the way Friedman's book does. Bottom line BUY BOTH. R.A Burt's for rather dry technical details; Friedman for why DCN chose one avenue over another in the design process and to look at design evolution and how these decisions stood up in battle. A comparison with foreign designs is also a very welcome addition. The book is a masterpiece.
 
Hi

Finally I have found the time to read a bit of this book, more precisely the chapter “War construction” covering Renown and Repulse, Glorious and her sisters and Hood.
Here are a few comments.
For each ship class there is a description of the evolution of the design. There are a few pictures and line drawings. Some are simply pictures of the original sketch designs (which I quite like, but this is a matter of taste) others are purpose made drawings. The description is by necessity not too detailed but still it gives the main features of each ship. The main text is supplemented by end-of-the book notes, where often sources are mentioned.
A big plus of the book is a set of tables at the end that summarize ship charecteristics. This tables provide data not only for the ships that were built but also for alternative designs of those ships and for ships that were not built because of treaties and other reasons (like N3, Lion and Temeraire and so on).
On the negative side are two facts. One is that some of the drawings are too light or a bit small.
The other, which quite disappointed me, is that sketch drawings for the unbuilt ships are a bit scarce (for example no drawing is provided for the 1945 battleships and only the final N3 and G3 battleship/battlecruisers are given despite many other alternatives were considered).
Hopefully someone else will produce a sort of “secret projects” book covering the might-have-been with more generous drawings. But this is material for another topic.

This said overall it is a very good book which I highly recommend to anyone who has an interest in the topics but is not already very knowledgeable (for example I have discovered that when Hood was designed consideration was given to alternatives with 4, 6 or 8 18in/40 guns)

Best

F_T
 
A superb book, well up to his best standard (which is very high).

I was less impressed by the colour inserts, which I thought were pretty but uninformative as the detail was too small to make out. I also regretted the scarcity of drawings of unbuilt projects. One additional point which struck me is that the photos are often reproduced too small to make out details which are referred to in the captions.

Apart from that, it's all good.
 
Maybe, someday, somebody could produce a naval equivalent of Tony Buttler's secret projects. It would be great to enjoy an encyclopedia focused on early design stages, alternative layouts and unbuilt naval designs covering Battleships, Cruisers, Aircraft Carriers, Escorts, Submarines and other miscellaneous but interesting designs. Of course, as much illustrated as possible.

Best regards,

Antonio
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom