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Topic: Soviet ABM systems (Read 22862 times)
overscan
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Soviet ABM systems
«
on:
April 22, 2006, 03:17:56 pm »
Thread to discuss Soviet ABM systems
System A - Fakel V-1000 missile (experimental)
System A-35 - Fakel 5V61 (ABM-1 GALOSH) missile
System S-225 - (ABM-X-2?) Novator 5Ya26 / PRS-1 (endoatmospheric) and Fakel 5Ya27 / V-825 (exoatmospheric)
System A-135 - Novator 53T6 (ABM-3? GAZELLE endoatmospheric) & Fakel 51T6 (ABM-4 GORGON exoatmospheric) missiles
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overscan
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #1 on:
April 22, 2006, 03:59:06 pm »
System "A" V-1000 missile
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overscan
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #2 on:
April 22, 2006, 04:02:42 pm »
System A-35 5V61 missile
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overscan
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #3 on:
April 22, 2006, 04:05:06 pm »
System 225 - 5Ya27 missile
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overscan
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #4 on:
April 22, 2006, 04:06:25 pm »
Possibly 51T6 missile from the A-135 system
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #5 on:
April 22, 2006, 07:24:27 pm »
The last two pics are great finds - may I ask where they came from?
It seems there is widely spread confusion concerning the Western ABM- designations. Researching the CIA FOIA archives I have came to the conclusion that the actual assignments are as follows:
ABM-1A/B was the A-35/A-35M system with A-350 GALOSH interceptor, as thought.
ABM-X-2 is a somewhat odd case. Apparently the Soviets constructed an 'Argun' radar from the 'Avrora' ABM system to an abandoned TRY ADD radar site at Sary Shagan around 1971, though the system itself had been cancelled in 1967. What I haven't been able to explain is that CIA reported that also two Galosh-type launchers were constructed at the same site. Western intelligence thought this to be a new ABM system, and assigned the ABM-X-2 designation. An operational site was expected to consist of a variant of the TOP ROOST radar, the new steerable phased-array radar plus 8 Galosh-type missiles. However, no missiles were flight tested from the launch complex.
Actually I'm now quite certain this is the 'Krona' space tracking system, see
http://www.army.lv/?s=898&id=331
.
ABM-X-3 was a rapidly deployable system that consisted of FLAT TWIN engagement radars, PAWN SHOP guidance radars, above-ground launchers, and an interceptor missile. The missile most probably had an SH-?? designation, but it has been censored in documents. Construction work on a test launch complex began in the early 1970s, and the program was apparently abandoned in the late 1970s. Probably this refers to the S-225 system, however I cannot be completely certain.
ABM-4 is the current A-135 system around Moscow, with 53T6 GAZELLE and 51T6 GORGON interceptors.
Please see also
http://www.designation-systems.net/non-us/soviet.html
.
I have a page about Soviet ABM systems for my homepage half-done, mostly what's missing is info about the ABM-4 system.
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overscan
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #6 on:
April 22, 2006, 07:44:51 pm »
They come from "Fakel's Missiles", a dual language English/Russian book from 2003 made with the full cooperation of Fakel. Its pretty nice- lots of cool pictures, kind of a glossy style but with good info.
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overscan
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #7 on:
April 22, 2006, 11:30:08 pm »
If you can share what info you have I can corroborate with anything additional from the Fakel's Missiles book.
In addition to the above, the book shows two missiles projected for use in the mobile "Saturn" ABM system in the late 50s. Initially a modified 20D (SA-2 GUIDELINE) designated 20D"S" was suggested, at least for testing, and then later on a modified 5V21"S" (SA-5 GAMMON) was studied.
Regarding the A-135, information is more sketchy due to the more sensitive nature of the system. The book says that the 51T6 introduced a command/inertial guidance with onboard digital computer for the first time, allowed retargetting in flight, and extended periods of standalone guidance without assistance from the ground, as well as improved flight profiling. Radiation protection was also improved.
The book has pictures of the silos and the Don-2 radar, and a drawing of a cutaway silo that reveals little of the actual missile. The picture above I tentatively labelled "51T6" is on a page between the System 225 page and the System 135 page, but is uncaptioned.
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Last Edit: April 22, 2006, 11:54:33 pm by overscan
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overscan
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #8 on:
April 23, 2006, 12:05:24 am »
Regarding System 225
Design started in 1962, at Design Bureau 1 under A Raspetlin (from 1967, B Bunkin). It was a mobile system intended to protect small size installations from 1 or 2 nuclear missile strikes and comprised a phased array radar for target tracking and ABM guidance and a command transmission radar. The book says it was cancelled in the mid 70s "due to some reasons".
Quote
The Soviet ABM-X-3 missile defense system with its small, transportable phased-array radars and high acceleration missile has been under development for a decade and provides the basis for a potential "breakout" threat.
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1981/sep-oct/barlow.htm
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Last Edit: April 23, 2006, 12:39:51 am by overscan
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charly015
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #9 on:
April 23, 2006, 11:46:02 am »
Hello
Quote
"Actually I'm now quite certain this is the 'Krona' space tracking system, see
http://www.army.lv/?s=898&id=331
"
KRONA System...Karachayevo-Cherkeskaya Republic and Zelencukskaya oo Zekenshushskaya city
and OKNO...
http://maps.google.com/maps?t=k&hl=en&ll=38.279629,69.225111&spn=0.020078,0.038624&om=0
...Mt. Sanglok, Nurek (Tadjikistan)
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #10 on:
April 23, 2006, 01:41:49 pm »
This is what I have about the S-225:
ABM-X-3
Soviet Designation: S-225
Designer: A.A. Raspletin, TsKB Almaz
Operational: Cancelled in 1978
Missile
Designation: 5Ya26/5Ya27
Designer: EKBM Novator/MKB Fakel
Warhead: Nuclear
Propulsion: Solid-propellant rocket
Guidance: Radio command
Components:
1 x Command post.
1 x Target and ABM tracking radar (FLAT TWIN).
1 x Missile guidance radar (PAWN SHOP).
? x Mobile launchers with 5Ya26 missile.
? x Mobile launchers with 5Ya27 missile.
Description
The S-225 anti-aircraft and anti-missile system was developed between 1965 and 1978 by TsKB Almaz. It was a mobile two-tier system with the capacity to intercept one or two RVs. Early warning was to be provided by the RO-1 and RO-2 radar stations, and later by the Donets radars. The Flat Twin target and ABM tracking radar was a combination of phased-array and mechanical radar with single target tracking capacity. The radar was supported by 20 electronics vans. It was of modular construction, and could be deployed to a concrete pad in 3-6 months. The Pawn Shop missile guidance radar had three mechanically steered antennas. It was attached to a van-sized transporter, and could be deployed to a prepared site in a few weeks.
Interesting questions are is the S-225 the ABM-X-3, and thus are the FLAT TWIN and PAWN SHOP radars its target tracking and command transmission radars? What would be needed are actual photos of the Soviet systems.
Another question - does the book have anything about the Don-2NP (HORSE LEG) radar? It was a Don-2 (PILL BOX) prototype constucted at Sary Shagan.
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overscan
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #11 on:
April 23, 2006, 03:32:03 pm »
Unfortunately its a book specifically about Fakel's missiles, and as such has limited stuff about the radars. There is a picture of a Don-2N radar, but thats all.
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #12 on:
April 23, 2006, 04:46:16 pm »
I'll post what I have so far about Soviet ABM systems...
A
Designer: G.B. Kisunko, KB-1/SKB-30 Vympel
Operational: Cancelled in 1961
Missile
Designation: V-1000
Western Designation: Gaffer
Designer: P.D. Grushin, OKB-2 Fakel
Lenght: 14.50 m
Diameter: 1.00 m
Wingspan: ?
Launch Weight: ?
Warhead: HE-Fragmentation
Propulsion: Solid-propellant rocket booster + liquid-propellant rocket sustainer (S2.726)
Propellants: AK-20I + TG-02
Guidance: Radio command
Max Range: 300 km
Ceiling: 25,000 m
Max Speed: 3,600 km/h
Components:
1 x SDO long-range tracking radar Dunai-2 (HEN ROOST), range 1,200 km.
3 x RTN tracking radars with separate antennas for the incoming warhead and outgoing ABM (HEN EGG), range 700 km.
1 x RSV-PR missile acquisition and SPK missile guidance radar station (HEN NEST).
? x Missile launchers with one V-1000 missile.
1 x SPD central command and computer system.
Description
The development of the "System A" anti-ballistic missile system was authorized in early 1956 after the completion of work on the S-25 SAM system. The draft project was completed in March 1956, and on 3 July 1956 work began on the construction of the first missile site "Area A" 250 km from the Sary Shagan train station. The Dunai-2 radar with a 150 m long receiver antenna became operational in 1958. The first intercept attempt against an R-5 (SS-3) IRBM on 24 November 1960 was fully successful, though the V-1000 was not yet equipped with warhead. However, the next five attempts during 1960 failed for various reasons, and there were further failures at the beginning of 1961. But on 4 March 1961 a V-1000 destroyed the re-entry vehicle of an R-12 (SS-4) IRBM, and on 26 March 1961 the re-entry vehicle of an R-5. Later the target missiles were equipped with various types of ABM countermeasures. The five-part operation K tested the ability of the system to function under nuclear explosions at altitudes of 80 to 300 km.
The M-40 central guidance system computer was capable of 40,000 operations per second. The three RTN tracking radars, each with two parabolic antennas of 5 and 15 meters diameter, were situated 150 km from each other in a triangle. They sent the launch command when the ICBM reached the calculated intercept position. The ABM carried a radio transmitter, and the ICBM warhead and ABM were tracked by triangulation. Guidance commands to the missile were transmitted from the RSVPR radar. The standard warhead consisted of 16,000 balls with tungsten-carbide core, TNT filling, and steel surface. Alternative warheads tested included the S2TA with self-guided infrared homing and detonation, and R2TA and G2TA utilizing radio or optical proximity fuse used with a nuclear warhead.
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Last Edit: April 23, 2006, 04:49:13 pm by Meteorit
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #13 on:
April 23, 2006, 04:51:08 pm »
ABM-1A/B
Soviet Designation: A-35/A-35M
Designer: G.B. Kisunko, SKB-30 Vympel
Operational: Entered service in 1972/1978, phased out in ?
Missile
Designation: A-350Zh, A-350R
Western Designation: Galosh Mod 0/Mod 1
Designer: P.D. Grushin, OKB-2 Fakel
Lenght: 19.8 m
Diameter: 2.57 m
Wingspan: 6.0 m
Launch Weight: 32,700 kg
Warhead: 1 MT nuclear
Propulsion: Solid-propellant rocket booster + RD-015T ramjet sustainer + solid-propellant/liquid-propellant rocket third stage
Guidance: Radio command/active radar homing
Max Range: 350 km
Ceiling: 120 m
Max Speed: Mach 4
Components:
11 x Dnestr/Dnepr/Daugava early warning radars (HEN HOUSE), range 3,500 km.
1 x Central command and 5E92B computer system.
1 x Dunai-3 target acquisition radar (DOG HOUSE), range 2,800 km.
1 x Dunai-3U target acquisition radar (CAT HOUSE), range 4,500 km.
4 x Launch sites with
1 x Command post.
1 x RKTs target tracking radar (TRY ADD).
2/1 x RKI ABM tracking and guidance radars (TRY ADD).
16 x Missile launch tubes with one A-350 missile.
Description
The development of an ABM system for the defense of Moscow was authorized on 8 April 1958. Further development of the A-35 system to defeat Minuteman-2 and Titan-2 ICBM warheads was ordered in 1960, and the first draft project was defended in the fall of 1962. It featured eight Buniy-3 early warning radars, 32 launchers, and a conventional fragmentation warhead for the missile. Construction of the ABM sites around Moscow started in 1962 using the infrastructure of the S-25 (SA-1) SAM system. At the same time, the Aldan experimental version was built to Sary Shagan, where tests began in 1967. Amongst other changes, the revised draft project presented in 1964 provided for a two-phase implementation of the system. In the first phase the missile was command guided to a point defined by ground-based computers. This version became operational in June 1972. The second phase system used active radar homing, and was first tested in 1974. During tests, the target missiles were R-12 (SS-4) and R-14 (SS-5) IRBMs. The final system update was made in 1977.
The A-350 was the first Soviet solid-propellant missile with gimballed nozzles. Tests of the A-350Zh missile were finished in 1973, and those of the radiation-hardened A-350R in 1974. The Aldan experimental launch complex consisted of a reduced scale command and control center, one Dunai-3UP radar (TOP ROOST), and three launchers. The main command and computing center was built 70 km west from Moscow adjacent to the Dunai-3 radar. The radar has a 65 degree field of view. Its construction began in 1962 near Kubinka, and it entered service in 1968. A fire on 8 May 1987 destroyed the radar's command center. The Dunai-3U radar at Chekhov facing China scans a sector of 51 degrees in azimuth and 48 degrees in elevation. It can track 30 ballistic targets simultaneously. The radar was modified in the 1980s to widen its scanning sector to include the southern parts of West Germany to detect Pershing-2 IRBM launches. The A-35 system was incapable of intercepting MIRV warheads. It was comparable to the US Nike-Zeus system. The A-35 was originally designated SH-01 and the A-35M SH-04 by the US DoD. Two launch sites were modernized to the A-35M configuration.
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overscan
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #14 on:
April 23, 2006, 05:12:53 pm »
Some additional info from the Fakel book:
System A
Prelimary work on ABM systems started in 1953, following a letter from seven Marshals of the Soviet Union to the party urging consideration of such a system in August of that year. A small group of engineers at KB 1 headed by G Kissunko started working out the possible solutions to such a system.
Major work began on August 17 1956, with a detailed resolution which put forward the requirements for the ABM system and assigned the constructors. Fakel claim the "A" system was always intended as a test system, not an operational one.
In the March 4th test, the R-12 target was detected at 1500km after emerging from the radio horizon. The warhead was detonated at 25km altitude.
The various components were located at quite considerable distances from each other and used radio datalinks to communicate.
The A-35 system used a new missile design, primarily because of the need for increased range and altitude capability compatible with nuclear warhead use.
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Last Edit: April 23, 2006, 05:15:50 pm by overscan
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overscan
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #15 on:
April 23, 2006, 05:26:18 pm »
A-35
The Fakel book does not mention a ramjet engine; it says 5V61 used solid propellant first stage and liquid propellant second stage.
It also says that the initial command guided version was revised in the early 70s to form the A-35M due to development of penetration aids such as decoys and jamming which the A-35 guidance system could not counter. The initial A-35 system was not officially "accepted for service"; the A-35M was accepted for service in 1978.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #16 on:
May 22, 2006, 07:55:47 am »
Check this out, this is an ancient research rocket used by the US in the 1950s. It was called Far Side, and it was a sounding rocket. Pay close attention to the bottom half, the dark blue part. Look familiar?
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Sentinel Chicken
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #17 on:
May 23, 2006, 03:26:37 am »
Any pictures of the Gazelle missile? From what I've read it's supposed to be similar to the Sprint ABM from the US Safeguard system.
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #18 on:
June 05, 2006, 01:00:51 pm »
Quote from: SOC on May 22, 2006, 07:55:47 am
Check this out, this is an ancient research rocket used by the US in the 1950s. It was called Far Side, and it was a sounding rocket. Pay close attention to the bottom half, the dark blue part. Look familiar?
Not saying they did or didn't copy it but back in those days high powered solid motors had yet to be developed. So you had Nike Hercules using four Ajax solid motor and Squirt (test vehicle leading to Sprint) had seven. (I'm guessing those were Ajax motors since the size looks about right). The first big solid motor was the ZeusA 1st stage- Thiokol TX-135.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #19 on:
June 05, 2006, 01:50:02 pm »
I doubt those were Ajax motors in the picture, that thing is nowhere near as big as it looks.
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sferrin
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #20 on:
June 05, 2006, 02:33:22 pm »
Check this out this must be relatively new.
http://www.wsmr-history.org/squirt.htm
Actually this is the one you want:
http://www.wsmr-history.org/OtherMissiles.htm
The Sprint page has several shots I've never seen before.
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Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 02:41:08 pm by sferrin
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #21 on:
June 05, 2006, 02:45:01 pm »
Forget that, check THIS out:
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=S8383~ser=FOR~per=6
I got a copy a few weeks ago, great stuff.
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Andreas Parsch
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #22 on:
June 08, 2006, 02:55:11 pm »
Quote from: SOC on June 05, 2006, 01:50:02 pm
I doubt those were Ajax motors in the picture, that thing is nowhere near as big as it looks.
The "Far Side" rocket used a cluster of 4 Recruit motors as first stage.
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Carmine Rossi
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #23 on:
June 22, 2006, 09:09:09 pm »
Hi,
this is my first post here. This is a very interesting forum. I would like to thank Overscan and all other contributors. Here a picture that I found some time ago surfing in the web
regards
Carmine
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #24 on:
November 28, 2006, 07:43:49 am »
I'm working on something along these lines. For starters, here's some info on the correct codenames:
ABM-1a/SH-01 GALOSH: A-35 with 5V61/A-350Zh
ABM-1b/SH-04 GALOSH: A-35M with 5V61R/A-350R
ABM-X-2: projected upgrade to the ABM-1 system, abandoned
ABM-X-3a/b: S-225 mobile ABM system with 5Ya26 and 5Ya27/V-825 missiles, follow-on of sorts to the Saturn program. Not sure if the 5Ya26 is "a" and 5Ya27 is "b" or vice versa. Some sources claim that the 5Ya26 was similar to or a progenitor of the GAZELLE.
ABM-4/SH-08 GAZELLE: 53T6 missile
ABM-4/SH-11 GORGON: 51T6 missile
The 51T6 is very similar to the 5V61. The last photo in this thread is a 51T6 and shows the main differences: reprofiled first/second stage junction, and recontoured first stage.
New systems: 45T6 missile, 55T6 missile (51T6 follow-on), and 53T6M (modified GAZELLE)
Other systems:
System A: V-1000 GAFFER interceptor, test system only leading to development of A-35.
Saturn: initial mobile system, abandoned
Aurora system: proposed national defense system developed in parallel with A-35 but later abandoned. A-351 and A-900 missiles, 5N24 Argun radar set.
Photos of the 5Ya26, GAZELLE, A-351, and A-900 have yet to turn up (or at least I haven't seen them).
Two more things:
1. What's the name of the Fakel book and where can I find it? I want a copy.
2. Meteorit, what's your web site address?
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #25 on:
November 28, 2006, 11:41:23 am »
SOC, I suppose you have read my reply #5 to this thread?
My web site address is
http://personal.inet.fi/cool/foxfour/index.html
. It can also be reached from the link on the left-hand panel below my user name.
However, Soviet ABM missiles aren't there yet.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #26 on:
November 29, 2006, 01:44:44 am »
Whoops, I totally missed the whole weblink button
And I saw your post, but I thought I had a few details that weren't there. I posted the whole thing for clarity.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #27 on:
November 29, 2006, 07:20:06 am »
Here are some more ABM photos that haven't been posted.
GORGON first stage:
http://vk1.bmstu.ru/?module=photos&topic=1&pid=56
GALOSH display:
http://vk1.bmstu.ru/?module=photos&topic=1&pid=55
I think this is the original GALOSH. The modified GALOSH, ABM-1b, featured the control fins on the second stage. That's my theory for now at least.
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #28 on:
November 29, 2006, 10:38:30 am »
Quote from: SOC on November 29, 2006, 01:44:44 am
Whoops, I totally missed the whole weblink button
And I saw your post, but I thought I had a few details that weren't there. I posted the whole thing for clarity.
Well, the point I was trying to make was that I don't think ABM-X-2 was a projected upgrade, but instead a misidentification by Western intelligence. My assumption is based mostly on various documents from the CIA FOIA archive. If you have any more information about ABM-X-2 could you post it, please?
Oh, and do you have anything more about the 45T6 and 55T6 missiles?
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #29 on:
November 29, 2006, 02:41:26 pm »
I'll check into what I've got on 45T6 and 55T6. Regarding ABM-X-2, I'll see if I can track down where I figured it out. It is possible that they used the designation twice, like they did with SA-5.
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Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 02:44:51 pm by SOC
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Trident
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #30 on:
November 29, 2006, 11:14:32 pm »
Are there any pictures of the 5N24?
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #31 on:
November 29, 2006, 11:40:15 pm »
5N24 photos? Haven't seen any. It's been described by Jane's as a phased array at Sary Shagan used later to direct a laser system.
ABM-X-2: this was apparently built out of upgraded A-35 components and tested at a site in Sary Shagan, leading to the belief that it was a new system when in fact it was an upgrade of the A-35. This one wasn't proceeded with.
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #32 on:
November 30, 2006, 12:21:05 pm »
I actually believe that the 5N24 'Argun' radar that was constructed at Sary Shagan was thought to be a new ABM system, as it was built at a previously abandoned ABM-1 test site. Thus it was assigned the ABM-X-2 designation. However, by that time 'Aurora' had been abandoned, and the radar was used to direct a high-powered laser.
There is a picture of the 'Argun' radar on reply #9 of this thread, and a link to a pic on reply #5.
SOC, unfortunately I don't have the materials for my ABM-X-2 conclusion at hand right now. I'll post more when I get home in the weekend.
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Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 12:22:42 pm by Meteorit
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #33 on:
November 30, 2006, 04:29:04 pm »
I don't know...according to Pavel Podvig, the Aurora system was a national system being designed around the same time as the A-35. The ABM-X-2 system was clearly assembled out of ABM-1b components, with modified radars being called EGG HEAD and PHASE ADD.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #34 on:
November 30, 2006, 04:46:54 pm »
Oh, the radar set you call Argun, the large dish, is actually Krona. Argun should actually be EGG HEAD.
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #35 on:
November 30, 2006, 05:08:21 pm »
OK, this is definately news to me. 8)
'Argun' should be of the same shape as 'Krona' ie. octagonal, thats why I assumed they are the same, or at least Krona would be a derivative.
Anything
more about EGG HEAD and PHASE ADD? I've never heard of them.
As I said, I'll show you my sources for my (wrong?) conclusion in the weekend.
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sferrin
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #36 on:
December 01, 2006, 03:05:57 am »
Quote from: SOC on November 29, 2006, 11:40:15 pm
5N24 photos? Haven't seen any. It's been described by Jane's as a phased array at Sary Shagan used later to direct a laser system.
ABM-X-2: this was apparently built out of upgraded A-35 components and tested at a site in Sary Shagan, leading to the belief that it was a new system when in fact it was an upgrade of the A-35. This one wasn't proceeded with.
Any information on the laser? I seem to recall reading in a Soviet Military Power or some other 80s publication that they were using it to shoot down RVs.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #37 on:
December 01, 2006, 03:43:15 am »
Quote from: Meteorit on November 30, 2006, 05:08:21 pm
Anything
more about EGG HEAD and PHASE ADD? I've never heard of them.
PHASE ADD and EGG HEAD were parts of the ABM-X-2 system. I've located them in Google Earth; apparently they are still there at Sary Shagan, doing who-knows-what. I'll dig up more tomorrow.
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Trident
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #38 on:
December 02, 2006, 10:24:01 pm »
So where is the Argun SOC, stop teasing
Is it in the high-res area?
The laser controlled by the 5N24 was apparrently the "Terra-3" which was used to frighten a Shuttle flight with "a low-power beam" and could reportedly do serious damage to orbiting satellites at full power. Shooting down incoming RVs was probably the ultimate goal, but I don't think they ever got that far. I'm not sure what type of laser it was or what its specifications were, either.
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #39 on:
December 02, 2006, 11:36:24 pm »
That "tracking" of the US Shuttle from 'Terra-3' could be just a myth - see here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3148&posts=32&start=1
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #40 on:
December 03, 2006, 01:13:02 am »
I think I've found Argun, but I'm not 100% sure yet. Once I've got a few more things figured out, I'll post a complete Sary Shagan overview that I've been putting together the past couple of days.
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Trident
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #41 on:
December 03, 2006, 01:37:25 am »
Quote from: Meteorit on December 02, 2006, 11:36:24 pm
That "tracking" of the US Shuttle from 'Terra-3' could be just a myth - see here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3148&posts=32&start=1
Interesting, because the story sure had me wondering. Like many of the posters in that thread I would have thought that tracking a manned spacecraft with enough power to cause discomfort/failures would be considered an act of war. Also, this document does not seem to mention any installation powerful enough to cause that kind of trouble at Sary Shagan:
http://www.princeton.edu/~globsec/publications/pdf/1_1-2vonHippelA.pdf
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #42 on:
December 03, 2006, 11:06:13 am »
Here's a preliminary ABM overview:
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/705420/page/0/vc/1
I'm still working on a more detailed version. Browse through that and see if I've gotten anything confused or if anything is missing.
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #43 on:
December 03, 2006, 04:05:35 pm »
Here's finally what I've got about ABM-X-2. I browsed through a load of documents on the CIA FOIA site several months (or even almost a year?) ago looking for what they had of Soviet ABM systems. This is a summary of ABM-X-2 information.
SOVIET STRATEGIC DEFENSES (NIE 11-3-71) 2/25/1971
Quote
[p.48] We believe that work on a follow-on ABM system (ABM-X-2) is underway at Sary Shagan. [...] A new launch area which will include at least two launchers, now is being built next to a previously abandoned Try Add radar site at Sary Shagan. It appears that a flat, antenna has been installed within a dome on top of the large Try Add building. It is likely that a mechanically steerable, phased-array radar is under construction with significantly better target handling capabilities than those of the large Try Add radars deployed around Moscow.
[p.78] A planar phased array appears to have been substituted for the large Try Add dish radar. Additionally, the building has been enlarged, perhaps to accommodate expanded data processing equipment. [...] The follow-on long-range ABM system (which we designate the ABM-X-2) [...] consists of a Top Roost acquisition and tracking radar, a steerable phased-array radar, and a Galosh missile.
SOVIET STRATEGIC DEFENSES (NIE 11-3-71 M/H) 8/19/1971
Quote
[p.8] At Launch Complex D, a follow-on system to the system in the Moscow defenses appears to be under development. The most notable of the developments there is the steerable phased-array radar [...] Two Galosh-type launchers had been emplaced at this complex.
SOC, if you haven't done so already, could you please see through pages 8-14 of the above report, where apparently the S-225/ABM-X-3 is discussed?
SOVIET STRATEGIC DEFENSES 11/2/1972
[Too much to type, please see attached picture.]
Note that the radar is "octagonal" and "little progress has been made".
SOVIET FORCES FOR STRATEGIC NUCLEAR CONFLICT THROUGH THE MID 1980S (NIE 11-3/8) 12/21/1976
Quote
[p.43] At one complex there, the Soviets appeared to be developing a follow-on to the Moscow system,
but no missiles were ever flight-tested
, and the launchers now have been removed. In 1972, however, we were able to identify at this complex what probably is a high-power laser.
So, reportedly no flight tests and a radar whose description fit what I knew of the 'Argun', plus the fact that I have never heard of a fitting equivalent system from Russian sources (SOC, have you got any ideas?) resulted in my aforementioned conclusion. But I am open to new information.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #44 on:
December 03, 2006, 04:20:19 pm »
Our two conclusions seem to be basically the exact same thing, just differing in semantics.
Was ABM-X-2 cancelled? Yes.
Did it use ABM-1 components to an extent? Yes.
It wasn't a completely new system, it was an "upgraded A-35" for all intents and purposes. I think we've been saying exactly the same thing but managing to talk around it for the last three pages
They called it a "follow-on" when in reality it was an "upgrade" as it used a modified TRY ADD (PHASE ADD) and the GALOSH interceptor. As for TOP ROOST, they had it wrong way back then. TOP ROOST was the Dunai-3 prototype for the 5N11 Dunai-3M DOG HOUSE array that is part of the A-35 system. Further improvements/alterations/whatever led to the 5N11A Dunai-3U CAT HOUSE radar which came online as part of the A-135 system. TOP ROOST was probably retained and used in conjunction with GALOSH/GORGON/GAZELLE interceptor tests though, before it was dismantled.
Anyway, TRY ADD...change the array to a PHASEd array...PHASE ADD...get it?
The radar set is still there at Sary Shagan (or at least it was when the Google Earth imagery was taken...) and there is in fact a structure I've identified as a possible laser emitter sitting right there. It was also situated in close proximity to the Terra-3 laser site down there as well (check out the link I posted to the Google Earth file).
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #45 on:
December 03, 2006, 06:35:24 pm »
Err, I don't think we agree(d).
What I was trying to say was that I thought (and I still consider it's fairly possible) that the Soviets never had this "upgraded A-35" system. Instead, they wanted to test a few new radars and later a laser, but because they were constructed at a previous ABM-1 test site, Western (US) intelligence thought they were components of a "new" ABM system and assigned the ABM-X-2 designation. This designation was not cancelled, even though actual flight tests apparently never commenced. Now I think your conclusion can be proved right if a) there really was some serious construction of new launchers at the test site and/or b) we find a Russian source describing and preferably giving a designation for some sort of an intermediate design between ABM-1 and ABM-4.
Quote from: SOC on December 03, 2006, 04:20:19 pm
As for TOP ROOST, they had it wrong way back then. TOP ROOST was the Dunai-3 prototype for the 5N11 Dunai-3M DOG HOUSE array that is part of the A-35 system. Further improvements/alterations/whatever led to the 5N11A Dunai-3U CAT HOUSE radar which came online as part of the A-135 system. TOP ROOST was probably retained and used in conjunction with GALOSH/GORGON/GAZELLE interceptor tests though, before it was dismantled.
Yes, I knew they were mislead with TOP ROOST.
Quote
Anyway, TRY ADD...change the array to a PHASEd array...PHASE ADD...get it?
The radar set is still there at Sary Shagan (or at least it was when the Google Earth imagery was taken...) and there is in fact a structure I've identified as a possible laser emitter sitting right there. It was also situated in close proximity to the Terra-3 laser site down there as well (check out the link I posted to the Google Earth file).
Well, I got it already when you first posted the designations.
But a few questions, partially from the GE file:
1. So are you sure FLAT TWIN is RSN-225?
2. I thought RO-1 and RO-2 were HEN HOUSEs of some sort also.
3. Would that 'Radar in disrepair' be EGG HEAD?
4. What is 5N16?
5. Have you located the ABM-X-3 test site (CIA Launch Complex F)?
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #46 on:
December 04, 2006, 04:24:49 am »
Questions first.
1. Relatively sure. Russian-language sources indicate that the engagement radar system was given the RSN-225 designator, in much the same way that the LOW BLOW of the SA-3 was given the RSN-125 designator. There may have been another designator for the radar, but RSN-225 seems to fit for now.
2. There were HEN HOUSE radars at those sites, yes. Stuff I've read concerning System A and the S-225 refer to the locations as RO-1 and RO-2. They were the first two HEN HOUSE sites outside of Sary Shagan.
3. I'm pretty sure EGG HEAD is the 5N24. The one in disrepair is possibly PHASE ADD. Still checking a few things on those.
4. Good question.
5. Yes, but it's going to be one of those launch sites in low resolution. There should in theory be another FLAT TWIN out there at the ABM-X-3 site.
Regarding ABM-X-2, the Argun radar is a component of the Avrora ABM system according to Podvig. Avrora was based on ABM-1/A-35 technology, which would seem to fit with the Argun being at that site at Sary Shagan with a TRY ADD and the PHASE ADD. Perhaps ABM-X-2 was the Avrora, and that was supposed to be tested at the Sary Shagan site, before it was dropped. Then the radars were reassigned or whatever to laser research with the laser arrays nearby. That would seem to fit with all of the data we have. ALso I should clarify, when I said "upgraded A-35", I didn't necessarily mean to imply that it was an upgrade that would be applied to the sites around Moscow, but rather that the system components of the ABM-X-2 were modified and upgraded from A-35 components. At any rate, if ABM-X-2 was Avrora, everything lines up nicely: the Argun radar at the test site, the PHASE ADD at the test site, and the lack of any apparent progress in an ABM role as Avrora was in fact not proceeded with.
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #47 on:
December 04, 2006, 03:37:05 pm »
Quote from: SOC on December 04, 2006, 04:24:49 am
3. I'm pretty sure EGG HEAD is the 5N24. The one in disrepair is possibly PHASE ADD. Still checking a few things on those.
5. Yes, but it's going to be one of those launch sites in low resolution. There should in theory be another FLAT TWIN out there at the ABM-X-3 site.
I assume you will be updating your GE file appropriately?
Quote
Regarding ABM-X-2, the Argun radar is a component of the Avrora ABM system according to Podvig. Avrora was based on ABM-1/A-35 technology, which would seem to fit with the Argun being at that site at Sary Shagan with a TRY ADD and the PHASE ADD. Perhaps ABM-X-2 was the Avrora, and that was supposed to be tested at the Sary Shagan site, before it was dropped. Then the radars were reassigned or whatever to laser research with the laser arrays nearby. That would seem to fit with all of the data we have. ALso I should clarify, when I said "upgraded A-35", I didn't necessarily mean to imply that it was an upgrade that would be applied to the sites around Moscow, but rather that the system components of the ABM-X-2 were modified and upgraded from A-35 components. At any rate, if ABM-X-2 was Avrora, everything lines up nicely: the Argun radar at the test site, the PHASE ADD at the test site, and the lack of any apparent progress in an ABM role as Avrora was in fact not proceeded with.
I think I now agree with you for the most part. But lets see what a few articles of Russian origin on FAS site have to say:
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/soviet/990600-bmd-rus.htm
about the A-135 system
Quote
In spring 1970, the NIIRP announced a tender for the launcher's radar. In the tender participated the following projects:
-the radar with a rotating phased array from the project of the Avrora ABM system (designed by the NIIRP, Chief Designer Kisunko);
-a radar with the lens of Luneberg from the project of the Avrora ABM system (Chief designer Yu. Burlakov);
-a tetrahedral radar with a fixed phased array (designed by the Radio-Electronic Institute, RTI).
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/soviet/jpuma036_94003.htm
Quote
The basic comprehensive conceptual design of G.V. Kisunko for the Avrora ABM system was rejected, since it did not meet a number of effectiveness and reliability requirements. But the proposed Argun multichannel firing complex with a rotating phased-array antenna, which is still serving effectively to this day, was recommended for creation at the range as the main measuring device. Also rejected were designs by A.L. Mints for the Don-2N multifunctional radar and Yu.G. Burlakov68 for a fundamentally new Neman radar, although a reduced prototype of it was created at the range for solving problems of discrimination of complex ballistic targets.
So it would seem that two radars that had their
origins
in the 'Avrora' project were constructed at Sary Shagan for test purposes. Presumably these are PHASE ADD and EGG HEAD. However, 'Avrora' itself never progressed to actual construction phase, thus my opinion that ABM-X-2 can be considered an "incorrect designation" as there wasn't an ABM
system
, just individual radars, at the site.
But this point is rather academic.
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #48 on:
December 04, 2006, 03:46:50 pm »
And, SOC, you asked for feedback about your GE file. One more thing: would it be possible to add the name of the radar location to the LPAR/BMEWS radar lists? I find long lists with just 'Dnepr', 'Daugava', etc. difficult to process mentally.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #49 on:
December 04, 2006, 11:46:52 pm »
Quote from: Meteorit on December 04, 2006, 03:37:05 pm
I assume you will be updating your GE file appropriately?
Yeah, sometime tonight. I'll also be adding radar designations to more systems (more on that in a minute).
Quote
I think I now agree with you for the most part.
So it would seem that two radars that had their
origins
in the 'Avrora' project were constructed at Sary Shagan for test purposes. Presumably these are PHASE ADD and EGG HEAD. However, 'Avrora' itself never progressed to actual construction phase, thus my opinion that ABM-X-2 can be considered an "incorrect designation" as there wasn't an ABM
system
, just individual radars, at the site.
But this point is rather academic.
That seems to fit. ABM-X-2 as a "wrong" designation seems correct to me, given that they didn't proceed with Avrora.
Quote
And, SOC, you asked for feedback about your GE file. One more thing: would it be possible to add the name of the radar location to the LPAR/BMEWS radar lists? I find long lists with just 'Dnepr', 'Daugava', etc. difficult to process mentally.
Not a problem. Initially I had them organized like that but decided against it because I thought it was too wordy. If it makes it easier to interpret then by all means I'll add locations to the file as well.
Now as to the radar designations, I have a preliminary list concocted, but I figured I'd see if you all could clarify some discrepancies I have.
PILL BOX Don-2N/5N20
HORSE LEG Don-2NP/5N20NP
XXXX 5N16 Neman
FLAT TWIN 5N65 or 5K17 or RSN-225?
HEN HOUSE 5N15 Dnestr
HEN HOUSE 5N15M Dnestr-M
HEN HOUSE 5N76 or 5N86 or 6N86P Dnepr? (one person thinks 6N86P is the Sary Shagan Dnepr...does P perhaps mean prototype? Would match PILL BOX/HORSE LEG if so)
HEN HOUSE 5U83 Dauguva
XXXX 5N79 or 5N86 Daryal?
STEEL WORK 5N32 Duga
STEEL WORK 5N77 Duga-2
STEEL WORK XXX Duga-3 (apparently Duga-3 was the operational version; Duga and Duga-2 were tested at Nikolayev, is this correct?)
DOG HOUSE 5N11 Dunai-3/3U
CAT HOUSE 5N11A Dunai-3A/3M (3U and 3M fit "better" as Dunai-3 was the prototype TOP ROOST for DOG HOUSE)
HEN ROOST Dunai-2
TOP ROOST Dunai-3
PHASE ADD 5N24 Argun
What was Dunai-1?
What is the designator for TRY ADD?
Any comments on the radars is appreciated.
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Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 08:06:10 pm by SOC
»
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #50 on:
December 05, 2006, 07:55:11 pm »
You have variously said Argun being PHASE ADD and EGG HEAD. Now which one is it?
5N16 Neman could be another leftover from the Avrora program.
Is the designation for Duga-3 STEEL WORK or STEEL WORK
S
? Also, I remember reading the smaller facility (for coverage of China?) being designated STEEL YARD (or then it was the other way round).
An A-35 launch site had one
RKTs
target tracking radar and two
RKI
ABM tracking and guidance radars. From CIA documents I got the impression that the whole combination was designated TRY ADD.
Other than that, I don't think I can add anything.
PS. SOC, correct the misplaced "quote" tag on your post above.
«
Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 07:58:34 pm by Meteorit
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #51 on:
December 05, 2006, 08:23:18 pm »
It's STEEL WORK, no S. STEEL YARD is a false codename, as far as I know it was never assigned. Those three guidance radars when sited together do make up a TRY ADD system (TRY ADD...triad...heh); TRY ADD A, B, and C actually (A is the large one, B/C are the smaller ones). And Argun is EGG HEAD, oops.
Quote tag corrected
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #52 on:
December 10, 2006, 02:02:18 pm »
What's this? (Found from
http://forums.airbase.ru/viewtopic.php?id=50559&p=3
)
And SOC, I'm waiting for that GE locations file update.
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muxel
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #53 on:
December 11, 2006, 12:10:48 am »
Quote from: overscan on April 22, 2006, 04:06:25 pm
Possibly 51T6 missile from the A-135 system
Overscan, this missile is not 51T6, this is Fakel V-825.
Quote from: SOC on November 29, 2006, 07:20:06 am
Here are some more ABM photos that haven't been posted.
GORGON first stage:
http://vk1.bmstu.ru/?module=photos&topic=1&pid=56
May be you mean GORGON
second
stage?
Quote from: SOC on November 28, 2006, 07:43:49 am
New systems: 45T6 missile, 55T6 missile (51T6 follow-on), and 53T6M (modified GAZELLE)
Fakel 55T6 is not 51T6 follow-on as you notice. 55T6 was the alternative project to Novator 5Ya26/PRS-1 missile for A-135 system and was canceled (circa 1984) in favour of Novator 53T6 design.
Quote from: Meteorit on December 10, 2006, 02:02:18 pm
What's this? (Found from
http://forums.airbase.ru/viewtopic.php?id=50559&p=3
)
Thank you for visiting our forum
This is part of Novator 5Ya26/PRS-1 missile at Priozersk (as monument).
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muxel
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #54 on:
December 11, 2006, 01:20:45 am »
Quote from: SOC on December 04, 2006, 11:46:52 pm
Now as to the radar designations, I have a preliminary list concocted, but I figured I'd see if you all could clarify some discrepancies I have.
XXXX 5N16 Neman
I've never seen this (5N16) designation.
Quote
FLAT TWIN 5N65 or 5K17 or RSN-225?
RSN-225 is designation for the radar of S-225 ABM system. 5K17 Azov is designation of the polygon instrumentation radar.
Quote
HEN HOUSE 5N76 or 5N86 or 6N86P Dnepr? (one person thinks 6N86P is the Sary Shagan Dnepr...does P perhaps mean prototype? Would match PILL BOX/HORSE LEG if so)
Dnepr is 5N86 and 5N86P is Dnepr prototype at Sary Shagan (P is for
polygon
in russian).
Quote
XXXX 5N79 or 5N86 Daryal?
Daryal is 5N79.
Quote
STEEL WORK XXX Duga-3 (apparently Duga-3 was the operational version; Duga and Duga-2 were tested at Nikolayev, is this correct?)
Operational version was 5N32 Duga-2 at Pripyat' and Komsomolsk-on-Amur sites. The prototype 5N77 Duga was at Nikolayev.
Quote
DOG HOUSE 5N11 Dunai-3/3U
CAT HOUSE 5N11A Dunai-3A/3M (3U and 3M fit "better" as Dunai-3 was the prototype TOP ROOST for DOG HOUSE)
Dog House was Dunai-3M at Kubinka and Cat House is Dunai-3U at Chekhov.
5N11A was designation for Daryal-S project.
Quote
TOP ROOST Dunai-3
Dunai-3UP
Quote
PHASE ADD 5N24 Argun
Important note! 5N25 Argun is designation for whole
missile complex
. The radar has designation 5N24/RKTs-35TA Istra.
Quote
What was Dunai-1?
Dunai-1 was small research radar, technology demonstrator for Dunai-2.
I have a question about Hen Nest and Hen Egg designation. To what radars they were assigned?
«
Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 06:15:52 pm by muxel
»
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #55 on:
December 11, 2006, 12:03:32 pm »
Quote from: muxel on December 11, 2006, 01:20:45 am
Important note! 5N25 Argun is designation for whole
missile complex
. The radar has designation 5N24/RKTs-35TA Istra.
Could you please clarify
which
missile complex this would be? Aurora?
Quote
I have a question about Hen Nest and Hen Egg designation. To what radars they were assigned?
Unless I'm mistaken HEN NEST was the RSV-PR missile acquisition radar and HEN EGG the RTN tracking radar of System A.
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #56 on:
December 11, 2006, 12:06:20 pm »
Quote from: muxel on December 11, 2006, 12:10:48 am
Fakel 55T6 is not 51T6 follow-on as you notice. 55T6 was the alternative project to Novator 5Ya26/PRS-1 missile for A-135 system and was canceled (circa 1984) in favour of Novator 53T6 design.
So can anyone tell us anything about the 45T6 missile?
Quote
Thank you for visiting our forum
This is part of Novator 5Ya26/PRS-1 missile at Priozersk (as monument).
As I thought...
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muxel
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #57 on:
December 11, 2006, 11:02:55 pm »
Quote from: Meteorit on December 11, 2006, 12:03:32 pm
Could you please clarify
which
missile complex this would be? Aurora?
Do you understand the difference between missile
complex
and missile
system
? 5N25 Argun missile complex was prototype of missile complex for Aurora missile system.
Quote
Unless I'm mistaken HEN NEST was the RSV-PR missile acquisition radar and HEN EGG the RTN tracking radar of System A.
I don't know what radar on your first picture, but on second and third pictures is RTN radars from the A system.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #58 on:
December 12, 2006, 02:41:04 am »
Quote from: Meteorit on December 10, 2006, 02:02:18 pm
And SOC, I'm waiting for that GE locations file update.
I'm working it. I'm sorting through the radar system names posted by muxel. Not sure I agree with some of them, so I'm sifting through things to see what stays and what goes, and then the file will be updated with more detailed info and some more images as well.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #59 on:
June 10, 2007, 10:20:27 am »
http://temperedinsanity.blogspot.com/2007/06/russian-strategic-defense-part-2-abm.html
See if that's any good
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #60 on:
June 10, 2007, 03:32:49 pm »
Good stuff, but you've mixed up your ex-USSR geography, Lake Baikal is most certainly not in Kazakhstan
I know, damn B's
Are you sure about the Daugava being a variant of the Dnestr/Dnepr-series? Pavel Podvig considers it a prototype Daryal-receiver that used the existing Olenegorsk radar as its transmitter. Also, Volga does look like it is based on Daryal, but one of the antenna buildings is significantly different. What makes this whole question interesting is that Podvig credits Volga with a 10cm wavelength while Daryal has metre-waves according to him - which would make sense if Daugava was able to act in conjunction with the Olenegorsk site, as that one supposedly uses this wavelength. So either the resemblance between Volga and Daryal is purely superficial, or Daryal might be more suitable as an engagement radar for an ABM system afterall.
BTW, Voronezh-DM has had its antenna array tripled from the original tall and slim configuration, giving it a square appearance:
http://russianforces.org/blog/2006/12/the_earlywarning_radar_in_lekh.shtml
Recently, I even found a small photo showing how it looks now:
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #61 on:
June 10, 2007, 04:03:26 pm »
Whoops. I changed it to read Balkhash
Daugava is a HEN HOUSE series radar. It does use a new array system that was considered by some sources to be a precursor to the Daryal radar, albeit not technically a prototype or anything. The Daryal was based on Daugava technology to an extent but represented a new design.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #62 on:
June 10, 2007, 07:40:26 pm »
There we go, I've edited the article to include a little more text, and a lot more imagery. This should be a much better presentation now that some of the system layouts are provided.
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #63 on:
February 21, 2008, 06:18:56 pm »
kind of summarizes all the stuff here
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/space_weapons/a-history-of-asat-programs.html
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nuedel
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #64 on:
December 08, 2008, 10:52:38 pm »
found some pics of the A-350 system
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...NOWADAYS WE HAVE SMART WEAPONS BUT THE DAY WILL COME WHEN WEAPONS ARE SMARTER THAN PILOTS
Trident
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #65 on:
December 12, 2008, 05:50:06 pm »
Nice find, thanks!
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Meteorit
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #66 on:
March 02, 2009, 01:10:19 pm »
Some more Soviet ABM projects:
S-550
Developed in 1981 in TSKB Almaz under the management of B.V. Bunkin and A.A. Lemanskogo. Point defence ABM system based on S-225 (ABM-X-3) to protect important targets.
A-235
Designed in 1986 by NPO Vympel as a third-generation Moscow ABM system (apparently a follow-on to A-35 and A-135).
Program NIER-810
Mobile non-strategic antimissile system studied in 1991-1995. With 38N6 mobile multifunctional radar and 45T6 missile.
Sources:
http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen/russia/rocket/rocketcomplex/data/ic_nomenrussiarocketrocketcomplex/1
http://forums.airbase.ru/2007/10/t57872--Poslednie-shedevry-Lemanskogo.8770.html
I remember SOC once said in another forum he had seen an image of a Russian mobile phased array ABM radar proposal. I think it probably was the 38N6, so if you or someone else finds any images of it that would be appreciated.
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Trident
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #67 on:
March 03, 2009, 04:18:49 pm »
Here's a video report about Putin's visit to the Avangard missile plant last year, toward the end there's a detailed view of a 51T6 missile including its first stage:
http://www.1tv.ru/news/polit/125331
If only we'd see similar footage of the 53T6, by now we've seen enough 51T6 pics to last us a lifetime
As for the mobile ABM radar, could this be it? Sort of a Green Pineski.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #68 on:
March 03, 2009, 10:08:55 pm »
That's it, the MARS radar. The image I saw was different but it's the same radar. A concept at this stage I think, likely for the S-500.
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flateric
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #69 on:
March 03, 2009, 10:12:58 pm »
some 51T6 screenshots. note that first stage is missing some pretty much part of it
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flateric
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #70 on:
March 03, 2009, 10:17:55 pm »
More fascinating stuff, including Terra-3 ruines, is here
http://www.olgino.info/index.php?ind=reviews&op=entry_view&iden=36
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Gregory
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #71 on:
March 04, 2009, 10:28:38 am »
Thanks to all for the replies. If the Mars radar is a concept for the S-500 it might not be the 38N6 but perhaps a derivative? And - the "SKY WATCH" phased array radars aboard the Gorshkov and Kuznetsov carriers were designated Mars-Passat - coincidence?
Quote
More fascinating stuff, including Terra-3 ruines, is here
http://www.olgino.info/index.php?ind=reviews&op=entry_view&iden=36
Unfortunately it seems the S-225 test areas are still off-limits. Or then nothing remains there anymore.
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Trident
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #72 on:
May 22, 2009, 05:44:38 pm »
Some interesting stuff probably, haven't had the time to wade through it yet:
An article on the mysterious Neman radar at Sary Shagan:
http://www.vko.ru/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?tabID=320&ItemID=285&mid=2892&wversion=Staging
Another on the Volga BMEWS in Belarus:
http://www.vko.ru/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?tabID=320&ItemID=232&mid=2892&wversion=Staging
Finally, some kind of report about S-300PMU2 testing:
http://www.vko.ru/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?tabID=320&ItemID=280&mid=2891&wversion=Staging
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #73 on:
August 06, 2009, 10:33:21 am »
I'm working on a huge update to my ABM article, does anyone what a sub-scale HEN HOUSE looking radar system might be for?
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GAU-8 Avenger
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #74 on:
August 09, 2009, 09:38:38 pm »
Interesting stuff, I wonder how effective these would have been if the nukes started flying.
Considering the past use of ABM systems with nuclear warheads, why does Ground Based Interceptor use a kinetic energy kill mechanism? Wouldn't a nuclear weapon be more likely to succeed?
Is the GBI program going ahead or was it all canceled by the Dear Leader.
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SOC
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #75 on:
August 09, 2009, 10:12:02 pm »
I thought I read/heard somewhere that GBI was being mothballed, with the silos in Alaska deactivated, but I can't find any such reference now.
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sferrin
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Re: Soviet ABM systems
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Reply #76 on:
August 09, 2009, 11:23:16 pm »
What I heard was that no more would be built and the 2-stage Euro version would be cancelled. Hadn't heard about them shutting down Greely but given the current. . . .<muffle, muffle, muffle>
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