Two unknown german bomber projects

Wurger

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Go to:

http://www.luftarchiv.de/

Click on "Luftfahrtindustrie", then on "Entwicklung" and scroll down. Two unknown german bomber projects.
Let the comments begin!!


edit: drawing from link addded
 

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"Drawing of two unrealized German aircraft types" on caption ( naturally in germany language)
Seems strong influence by aircraft of Soviet Union , probably two projects remain incomplete !
 

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The top project resembles the giant Tupolev bombers from the early 30`s. Since such a big "bird" like this isn`t mentioned in any other big german aircraft company, and expertise to produce this great project wasn`t available at the time to many builders, I suspect this could be a project by Adolf Rohrbach.

The bottom one... The landing gear looks like the one adopted for the Heinkel He111. The same goes to the cabin, similar to the one fitted to the early He111`s. I`d say a Heinkel project.

Timeline: early 30`s.
 
As I can see the drawings, I would say the top one looks like a version of Tupolev giants (as Wurger says), the bottom one like french bombers in the 30´s or czech Praga... B)
 
Interesting find indeed ! Hard to determine, where the designs actually come from, I just would
add for consideration, that both designs have details we can find in Dornier designs, too (see drawing
from Novarra "Die deutsche Luftrüstung")
The gun turrets (and to me, the cabin, too) and the landing gear of the second one somewhat resembles
he Do 19. And engines above the fuselage where usd i the Do Y, too.
 

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The second bomber has angled landing gear struts more akin to the He111. I agree that it somehow fits in the "Multiplace de Combat" genre. Despite being close to Heinkel designs, I could not find a reference in Volker Koos "Ernst Heinkel Flugzeugwerke 1933-1945" book. Perhaps the first volume, covering 1923-1933 has it.

On the first drawing, the spatted landing gear reminds me of the Rohrbach "Roterra" ( very similar but with only one wheel ), also using an over fuselage engine mounted on struts.
 
Is there anyone who can decipher the text on the drawings...?
 
lark said:
Is there anyone who can decipher the text on the drawings...?

The only sentence, I think, I can read is the hand written "Das starre Fahrwerk fällt auf" (the fixed landing gear
is striking). To me that means, that at the time this design was drawn, retractable landing gear already was
standard.
 
not only the fixed landing gear is striking, also that engine on top of fuselage
it look right taken away from the Dornier Do X

could it be that is a Siemens-built Bristol Jupiter radial engines ( tractor and pushers propellers ) ?
if yes it would put the design time of that mysterious bomber around 1925~1930 ?
 
Michel Van said:
could it be that is a Siemens-built Bristol Jupiter radial engines ( tractor and pushers propellers ) ?

I think, the exhaust stubs, probably indicating inline engnes are visible.
And to my opinion, the drawing of this eight engined type shows tow variants of the nose,
one quite pointed and a stubby one with a protruding gun.
 

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Bonjour à tous


Those bombers were discussed some years ago on the "LUFTARCHIV.DE" site .


I copied then :


"Sie entstammen einem Flugzeug Metall-Facharbeiter Buch "


Bert Hartmann , the owner of Luftarchiv.de , who discovered them , thought "those were pure fictive designs".
 
Well, this could be an explanation for those quite atypical designs. The subsequent handwritten captions
show, that we aren't the first to search for them !
 
could it be that is a Siemens-built Bristol Jupiter radial engines ( tractor and pushers propellers ) ?
BMW VI 12.cylinder inline engines, very different of radials, in both designs.

And to my opinion, the drawing of this eight engined type shows tow variants of the nose,
one quite pointed and a stubby one with a protruding gun
I had overseen that. Great!! Also the tail ( not only the rudder) looks to have an alternative.

Bert Hartmann , the owner of Luftarchiv.de , who discovered them , thought "those were pure fictive designs".
If it`s true and the drawings are "pure fictive", I don`t understand why the author keeps them in the "Entwicklung" chapter. I do not know how he came to that conclusion, and I don`t have access to the original documents, so I won`t make appreciations, but he could also be wrong. At least the second drawing shows a great deal of work.
 
Wurger said:
If it`s true and the drawings are "pure fictive", I don`t understand why the author keeps them in the "Entwicklung" chapter.

Will try to ask personally, have just sent my registration.
Such designs, with those deatils and as it seems even with alternative layouts in a specialist book for metal works wouldn't make
really sense to me. But maybe the origin was somewhere else and the drawings were just used twice ? And its not even clear, if
both were published at the same time.
So, still room for research !
 
I also applied for (re)registration :) . Lets see if Gert knows more on this.
 
Meanwhile, please see our own thread:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2818.msg181761.html#msg181761

There`s a side view of the Avia B-46, alias Rohrbach Roterra. Mind the landing gear and compare with the "Unknown" nº1.
 
The link seems not to work properly for me, but I will try to refrain my enthusiasm :) !

link repaired
 
While reviewing some published literature and our own threads, I am almost certainly sure that the first bomber stemms from Rohrbach or, at least, shows strong evidence of Rohrbach`s influence. He maintained a lawsuit against Dornier around the use of pylon mounted engines above the wings, drawing away other german companies from this solution. Although he did not bulit a tandem engine gondola, he certainly planned so (A Romar with four radials in tandem). The wing has a triangular shape (and wing area) I don`t see on Dornier`s designs from the early 30`s, but we could trace within Rohrbach`s seaplanes (Robbe/Romar). Also Kurt Tank (among Rohrbach`s) was departing by 1929 from seaplanes, already putting the future on long distance land planes using four or more engines.
 
The answer is here :

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Gerhard-Otto-Konstruktionselemente-fur-den-Flugzeugbau-Original-1936/152917297673?hash=item239a94ca09:g:ii0AAOSwKXdajZTW

Those were two examples of how to show an aircraft design , from the book "Konstruktionselemente für den Flugzeugbau" by the Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard Otto (1936) from the Technischen Hochschule Hannover .

Tafel II for a 42 t. aircraft like the Maxim Gorki .

Tafel III for a longitudinal section .
 
Hi all,
a couple of screenshots from ebay.
 

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Tafel = blackboard.
Very fitting for designs in a textbook.
 
As I know,

in 1934 Luftwaffe launched a competition for heavy bomber with
extraordinary maximum load of bombs,so maybe those were a
proposal for it ?,need confirm,it was from Arabic magazine.
 
My best guess, considering the inclusion of these two projects in a text book, is that they were obsolete/rejected designs, "recycled" by the author. The bombs in the second design aren`t german, BTW.
 
My best guess, considering the inclusion of these two projects in a text book, is that they were obsolete/rejected designs, "recycled" by the author. The bombs in the second design aren`t german, BTW.

Tafel III has such a strong resemblance to an unbuilt Czech bomber (a Praga design IIRC) it's almost certainly either inspired by or cribbed from Czech blueprints.

Tafel II is, at least to my eyes, a Maxim Gorky-type built up from a Do 19. Totally fictional, but interesting nonetheless.
 

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