Sablatnig Flugzeugbau GmbH

The Sablatnig Flugzeugbau GmbH was founded on the 5th of October 1916 by Dr.Josef Sablatnig.
Born on the 9th of February 1886 in Klagenfurt/Austria, he got his pilot license in 1910. He was an
experienced pilot, had studied mechanical engineering and had already used his ideas and
knowledge for the development and improvement of aircraft made by the Austro-Hungarian
Autoplanwerken. Triggered by a meeting with Prinz Heinrich von Preußen (Prince Henry of Prussia),
he chose the German citizenship in 1911and became associate of the Union-Flugzeugwerke GmbH in
Berlin during 1913. The first aircraft fully designed by Josef Sablatnig and carrying the designation
“SF” (for Sablatnig Flugzeugbau) is the SF 1, still built by another company (Bootsbau Rethel), as were
the next types SF 2 to 4. Those orders and the promise of more to come eventually lead to the
foundation of Sablatnigs own company and manufacturing plant. The driving force from this point
onwards was Dr. Hans Seehase, working on all own designs, although the Friedrichshafen FF 49 was
built in license .Nevertheless, to fulfil existing contracts Sablatnig had often to rely on production
support by LFG (Luftfahrzeug-Gesellschaft m.b.H). The company survived the end of the war, trying
to switch to the construction of civil aircraft, which at first were modified from existing war types and
used for the new founded Lloyd Luftverkehr Sablatnig, a civil carrier jointly owned by a branch of the
Norddeutsche Lloyd and Sablatnig Flugzeugbau GmbH. In 1924 Josef Sablatnig left the Sablatnig
Flugzeugbau GmbH, which had run into severe difficulties, when the Treaty of Versailles more or less
ended all aviation activities in Germany, although a light aircraft was still built and tested, ending the
short line of aircraft built under this name. Josef Sablatnig tried to find an income by producing cars,
but with little success only and was back into the aircraft industry in 1931, working for Junkers.
Imprisoned by the Soviets on 16th of June 1945, Josef Sablatnig died in the KZ Buchenwald in 1946.




SF 1 : single engined trainer, biplane on floats, 1915, 1 built SF 2 : single engined reconnaissance biplane on floats, 1916, 46 built
SF 3 : single engined two-seat fighter, biplane on floats, 1916, 1 built
SF-4 : single engined single-seat fighter, biplane on floats, 1916, 1 built
SF-4D: single engined single-seat fighter, triplane on floats, 1917, 1 built
SF 5 : single engined reconnaissance biplane on floats, 1916, 91 built
SF 6 : single engined single-seat fighter, biplane on floats, 1917, not sure, if built
SF 7 : single engined two-seat fighter, biplane on floats, 1917, 3 built
SF 8 : single engined trainer, biplane on floats, 1917, 33 built
SF 10 : single engined light passenger aircraft on floats, shoulder wing, probably 1919, project only

C I : single engined reconnaissance biplane, 1917, 2 built
C II : single engined long-range reconnaissance biplane, 1917, 3 built (C IIa and b)
C III : single engined reconnaissance monoplane, 1918, 1 built
N I : single engined night bomber, biplane, 1917, 1 built (converted SF 5)
P 1 : single engined light passenger aircraft (4 + 1), biplane, 1919, 1 built
P 3 : single engined light passenger aircraft (6 + 1), parasol wing , 1919, 18 built (probably)
P 4 : single engined light passenger aircraft, 1921, project only
P 5 : 4-engined passenger aircraft (10 + 1), 1922, project only, maybe identical with “project G”
K.E.1 : single engined sports aircraft, monoplane, 1919, 1 built
K.E.2 : single engined sports aircraft (metal structure), monoplane, 1920, 1 built
K.E.3 : single engined, twin seat sports aircraft (metal structure), monoplane, project only
SP 1 : Probably designation for series version of the K.E.3
K.E.4 : single engined, twin seat sports aircraft, development of K.E.3 monoplane, project only

All photos and information from “Josef Sablatnig – Der Sablatnig Flugzeugbau und sein Chefkonstrukteur Hans Seehase”

by Karl-Dieter Seiffert.

Great work my dear Jemiba,and I can add;


SF-4D called SF-4Dr.


N.I two seat biplane night bomber aircraft,developed from C.I,built in
small number,powered by one 220 hp Benz Bz.IV engine.


Trainer-1 & Trainer-2 two seat trainer aircraft,no more details.


G.I,G.II & G.III were a bomber biplanes,no confirming on this.

Thanks hesham,
about the SF 4D or "SF 4 Dr" (fourth picture in first post) it is said, that both designations were more
or less internal ones only, as the type didn't made it into service, but just "D" was more common.
And thanks for the clue about the N I, you may have noticed, that there is a photo, but it was mentioned
in the same line, as the C I. Typical copy-amd-paste error, beg your pardon, it's corrected. But there was
only one example.
Those others were hard to trace for the author of that book, as the listed P 5 or "G", they were often
only mentions in the correspondence of Josef Sablatnig and his chief designer Hans Seehase.

Thank you my dear Jemiba,


and for "G" series,I will search about it,to confirm or denied its existing.

Jens,

does the book tell what happened to Hans Seehase? Did he pursue his aeronautical endeavours `till WW2?

As Josef Sablatnig himself, Hans Seehase left the Sablatnig Flugzeugbau in 1924, being sometimes assigned to
the DVL as consultant. During this time, he was still busy with private research in the field of kites ! In 1932 he
developed a collapsible motor cycle (without success) and in 1936 he built a human powered aircraft, so back in the
field of aviation again. In his own small factory in Warnemünde he then produced sliderules and stencils, quite succesfully.
In 1970 he migrated to the Federal Republic of Germany, where he died on 19th of September 1974.
The mentioned book is based in large part on his comprehensive legacy, which was given to the German Technical
Museum Berlin in 2002.

Thanks !

Great info my dear Jemiba.

hesham said:

... Trainer-1 & Trainer-2 two seat trainer aircraft,no more details.

... G.I,G.II & G.III were a bomber biplanes,no confirming on this.

Click to expand...

Have tried to check both, the "trainer to my opinion were the first two SF 1 aircraft. Until acceptance by
the German navy, this type had actually no designation, was then called "WF 1", probably for "Wasserflugzeug"
(floatplane) and got then the final designation SF 1.

I couldn't find any traces of G.I/II/III bombers, the only aircraft reffered to as "G" was a passenger aircraft
for up to 10 pax, with four 350 to 450 hp engines, about 20 m span and built from steel. After the war Sablatnig
certainly wasn't engaged (and not interested !) in military aircraft and during the war the company was fully occupied
with their single engined types, not to mention, that there was no experience with the construction of those aircraft.

My dear Jemiba,


the Trainer aircraft was not related to SF series as I know,and for "G"
series,it was mentioned in Internet site,but may be it close now,but
in my files,there was three aircraft and a bombers not civil airplanes.


May be I will find them in anther site,I am still searching.

As mentioned before, the book is based mainly on material collected by Hans Seehase, chiefdesigner
of the Sablatnig Flugzeugbau GmbH but as far as I know, it's still yet the only book explicitely about
this company. Josef Sablatnig worked on aircraft designs before he founded that company, but then,
those aircraft would have to be regarded as Autoplan or Union-Flugzeugwerke designs, I think. About
other bomber designs, I'm still sceptical, because of the reasons mentioned in my last post.
There would have been hardly capacity available for what would have been a major project. The project "G",
which is mentioned, was designated as "P 5"in other correspondence. And to my opinion, there's not much
doubt, that it was a civil aircraft, as times were hard enough for German aircraft companies and the only
realistic market was for passenger aircraft. But as for example Gotha WW I bombers carried a G-designation,
a misinterpretation isn't hard to imagine.

My dear Jemiba,


when you found Sablating in a site,it was hard to believe they meant anther company
or it was a misprint,that's because this company was not famous and its name was so
weird,therefor I am sure from what I saw,but I agree with you,there is no evidence
until now about their existing.

About the "weird" name I agree, as, honestly, for a long time I read it as "Sablating", too, although the correct spelling is "Sablatnig" :-\ . And the wrong spelling can still be found on many sites ! And yes, compared to other companies, it was a rather small one, so obviously often slipped the attention
of aviation historians. The author of the mentioned book was said, that it was triggered to a large extent by
the donation of the personal archive of Dr. Hans Seehase to the German Technical Museum Berlin, as without
there would have been only very scarce sources.

My dear Jemiba,

I check from G.I,G.II & G.III,and maybe they related to Union Flugzeugwerke,
also for training aircraft,he built a number of land trainer airplanes.

Also he had a C-Type,developed from C.II.

Germany Aircraft of the WWI

Also here is the P 2;

http://www.histaviation.com/Sablatnig_Sab_P_II.html

The earlier lists by Jemiba are complete in my opinion.

I have no answer concerning eventual G-bombers. I doubt Sablatnig was involved in the Union G I since he left the Union company already in 1913.

As for the Sablatnig P III also twelve were built in Estonia by Dwigatel in Reval (Tallinn).

Thank you my dear Tuizentfloot,

and for G series,in my file three designs (G.I,G.II & G.III),so I will check more and more,
maybe I am wrong.

From L'Aeronautique 1923,

what was this ?.

It is the Sablatnig KE 2 , designed by Dr-Ing; Seehase (1920/1921)

Also from Czech Museum,

what was DD ?.

hesham said:

Also from Czech Museum,

what was DD ?.

Click to expand...

only here i find dd
Wind Driven-propellers (or "Windmills")
Napisao/la Max Michael Munk

Thank you my dear Robertino,

but when I translate the world after it,that means "Swept or Arrowhead",maybe a swept wing version of P.III ?,
specially the P.III was mentioned after and far about DD ?.

DD is German and it means simply Doppeldecker, biplane. Šípový is in this context swept-wing, basically it is direct tranlation from German Pfeil. For example another early machine, DFW Mars Pfeil-Doppeldecker. Josef Sablatnig is mentioned as co-designer of Union Pfeil-Doppeldecker, so it might be it or more likely its evolution designed solely by Sablatnig.

It is this?

DFW Mars Pfeil-Doppeldecker ?

Aubi said:

DD is German and it means simply Doppeldecker, biplane. Šípový is in this context swept-wing, basically it is direct tranlation from German Pfeil. For example another early machine, DFW Mars Pfeil-Doppeldecker. Josef Sablatnig is mentioned as co-designer of Union Pfeil-Doppeldecker, so it might be it or more likely its evolution designed solely by Sablatnig.

Click to expand...

robertino said:

It is this?

DFW Mars Pfeil-Doppeldecker ?

Click to expand...

Here the Union Pfeil DD . Sablatnig MAY have participated in its design :

richard B said:

Aubi said:

DD is German and it means simply Doppeldecker, biplane. Šípový is in this context swept-wing, basically it is direct tranlation from German Pfeil. For example another early machine, DFW Mars Pfeil-Doppeldecker. Josef Sablatnig is mentioned as co-designer of Union Pfeil-Doppeldecker, so it might be it or more likely its evolution designed solely by Sablatnig.

Click to expand...

robertino said:

It is this?

DFW Mars Pfeil-Doppeldecker ?

Click to expand...

Here the Union Pfeil DD . Sablatnig MAY have participated in its design :

https://flic.kr/p/2hrvQAo

Click to expand...

thx for info and pic

it is a "Union Pfeil Doppeldecker", constructed by Sablatnig and/or Hoehndorf, and/or Bomhard. This descending tube is not a tube, but one of the two struts running from the edge of the upper wing to the fuselage - the upper portion is not visible due to the light of the window in the background. The rising lower wing, the arrowed upper one and the tank on the upper wing is also a good identification.
So i think this photo cannot have been taken before 1913, because there was no "Union Pfeil" inline engine type before this time - and the hangar did not exist up to october 26th, 1913.

This plane is being shown in the airship hangar of Dresden, together with airship LZ 17 named "Sachsen" ("Saxony"), and we are trying to find out when the picture was taken, to determine when the airship was rebuilt, receiving an additional section for generating more lift.

Sablatnig and a pilot named Hanitz flew the "Union Pfeil" in september and october 1913, in Johannisthal, Berlin, setting some new altitude and weight records (with 5 persons!) , and we also found out that this Hanitz also flew a "Union Pfeil" (maybe not the same as in Johannisthal ?) in october in Dresden, performing loopings and spins, together with 6 other planes including Albatros biplanes, and a Taube monoplane. The LZ 17 also left the hangar and made an 8-hour flight, with 15 "official" persons.
The Union Pfeil at Johannisthal has wire/uncovered wheels.

Now we have found out which plane that is, however - on all photos i have this "Union" type has wired wheels, or better non-covered ones. So even while this photo cannot be from before october 26th, 1913, it also could be from any time until 1916 - the year the LZ 17 was broken up.

The hangar in Dresden did not exist before october 26th, 1913, when it was introduced to the public with a celebration and the show flying of - among others - pilot Hanitz in a "Union Pfeil".
While i would love to think the photo was taken at or around the hangar being first presented to the public, we would need a bit more evidence.

Click to expand...

link - http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44801

robertino said:

richard B said:

Aubi said:

DD is German and it means simply Doppeldecker, biplane. Šípový is in this context swept-wing, basically it is direct tranlation from German Pfeil. For example another early machine, DFW Mars Pfeil-Doppeldecker. Josef Sablatnig is mentioned as co-designer of Union Pfeil-Doppeldecker, so it might be it or more likely its evolution designed solely by Sablatnig.

Click to expand...

robertino said:

It is this?

DFW Mars Pfeil-Doppeldecker ?

Click to expand...

Here the Union Pfeil DD . Sablatnig MAY have participated in its design :

https://flic.kr/p/2hrvQAo

Click to expand...

thx for info and pic

it is a "Union Pfeil Doppeldecker", constructed by Sablatnig and/or Hoehndorf, and/or Bomhard. This descending tube is not a tube, but one of the two struts running from the edge of the upper wing to the fuselage - the upper portion is not visible due to the light of the window in the background. The rising lower wing, the arrowed upper one and the tank on the upper wing is also a good identification.
So i think this photo cannot have been taken before 1913, because there was no "Union Pfeil" inline engine type before this time - and the hangar did not exist up to october 26th, 1913.

This plane is being shown in the airship hangar of Dresden, together with airship LZ 17 named "Sachsen" ("Saxony"), and we are trying to find out when the picture was taken, to determine when the airship was rebuilt, receiving an additional section for generating more lift.

Sablatnig and a pilot named Hanitz flew the "Union Pfeil" in september and october 1913, in Johannisthal, Berlin, setting some new altitude and weight records (with 5 persons!) , and we also found out that this Hanitz also flew a "Union Pfeil" (maybe not the same as in Johannisthal ?) in october in Dresden, performing loopings and spins, together with 6 other planes including Albatros biplanes, and a Taube monoplane. The LZ 17 also left the hangar and made an 8-hour flight, with 15 "official" persons.
The Union Pfeil at Johannisthal has wire/uncovered wheels.

Now we have found out which plane that is, however - on all photos i have this "Union" type has wired wheels, or better non-covered ones. So even while this photo cannot be from before october 26th, 1913, it also could be from any time until 1916 - the year the LZ 17 was broken up.

The hangar in Dresden did not exist before october 26th, 1913, when it was introduced to the public with a celebration and the show flying of - among others - pilot Hanitz in a "Union Pfeil".
While i would love to think the photo was taken at or around the hangar being first presented to the public, we would need a bit more evidence.

Click to expand...

link - http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44801

Click to expand...

robertino said:

richard B said:

Aubi said:

DD is German and it means simply Doppeldecker, biplane. Šípový is in this context swept-wing, basically it is direct tranlation from German Pfeil. For example another early machine, DFW Mars Pfeil-Doppeldecker. Josef Sablatnig is mentioned as co-designer of Union Pfeil-Doppeldecker, so it might be it or more likely its evolution designed solely by Sablatnig.

Click to expand...

robertino said:

It is this?

DFW Mars Pfeil-Doppeldecker ?

Click to expand...

Here the Union Pfeil DD . Sablatnig MAY have participated in its design :

https://flic.kr/p/2hrvQAo

Click to expand...

thx for info and pic

it is a "Union Pfeil Doppeldecker", constructed by Sablatnig and/or Hoehndorf, and/or Bomhard. This descending tube is not a tube, but one of the two struts running from the edge of the upper wing to the fuselage - the upper portion is not visible due to the light of the window in the background. The rising lower wing, the arrowed upper one and the tank on the upper wing is also a good identification.
So i think this photo cannot have been taken before 1913, because there was no "Union Pfeil" inline engine type before this time - and the hangar did not exist up to october 26th, 1913.

This plane is being shown in the airship hangar of Dresden, together with airship LZ 17 named "Sachsen" ("Saxony"), and we are trying to find out when the picture was taken, to determine when the airship was rebuilt, receiving an additional section for generating more lift.

Sablatnig and a pilot named Hanitz flew the "Union Pfeil" in september and october 1913, in Johannisthal, Berlin, setting some new altitude and weight records (with 5 persons!) , and we also found out that this Hanitz also flew a "Union Pfeil" (maybe not the same as in Johannisthal ?) in october in Dresden, performing loopings and spins, together with 6 other planes including Albatros biplanes, and a Taube monoplane. The LZ 17 also left the hangar and made an 8-hour flight, with 15 "official" persons.
The Union Pfeil at Johannisthal has wire/uncovered wheels.

Now we have found out which plane that is, however - on all photos i have this "Union" type has wired wheels, or better non-covered ones. So even while this photo cannot be from before october 26th, 1913, it also could be from any time until 1916 - the year the LZ 17 was broken up.

The hangar in Dresden did not exist before october 26th, 1913, when it was introduced to the public with a celebration and the show flying of - among others - pilot Hanitz in a "Union Pfeil".
While i would love to think the photo was taken at or around the hangar being first presented to the public, we would need a bit more evidence.

Click to expand...

link - http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44801

Another photograph of the same Union Pfeil-Doppeldecker "U.3" with Argus-engine. Other engines were Daimler (Mercedes) and Austro-Daimler. From the archives of Bruno Lange (Stiftung Deutsches Technikmuseum Berlin).


The genealogy of the Union Pfeil-Doppeldecker goes back to the early (1910-12) Lohner Pfeilflieger. To the ideas of the German Oberingenieur Karl Bomhard Lohner built the Lohner-Bomhard Doppeldecker, with the lower wing bent up and meeting the upper wing (first flight 16 January 1912).

In 1912 on behalf of the Anstalt für Präzisionstechnik in Berlin-Charlottenburg Bomhard designed a Pfeilflieger known als the Bomhard Pfeil-Doppeldecker. This Pfeil-Doppeldecker was built by Kühlstein Wagenbau in Charlottenburg with Argus-, NAG or Daimler-engines. With this type Josef Sablatnig set a hight record with three passengers in September 1912.

In 1911 Josef Sablatnig was active as designer and pilot for the Österreichisch-Ungarische Autoplan Ges.m.b.H. of the Warchalowski brothers. In the same year he designed the Sablatnig Baby pusher biplane, built by Autoplan. After a stay in France with Nieuport he settled in Germany (at the initiative of Prinz Heinrich von Preußen). And continued his carreer as a star pilot.

At the end of 1912, again with some initiative of Prinz Heinrich, the Union Flugzeugwerke GmbH was founded. One of the owners was Josef Sablatnig, who was also factory designer and pilot. Karl Bomhard was also involved. The Union Pfeil-Doppeldecker was a development, mostly by Sablatnig, of the original Bomhard type. After the military declined the Pfeilflieger in 1913 things were going badly for Union, and eventually Sablatnig left. The failure of the G I in 1915 meant the end of Union.

Click to expand...

My dear Jemiba,

in my files,there was also B.I ?.

hesham said:

... there was also B.I ?.

Click to expand...

B.I was simply the military designation for the one-off Sablatnig SF 6 - an SF 5 on wheels (aka [the] 'SF 5 auf Rädern').

Sorry, obejction !

Looked up in "Josef Sablatnig-Der Sablatnig Flugzeugbau und sein Chefkonstrukteur Hans Seehase", written by Karl-Dieter Seifert, the only book, specifically about Sablatnig, I could find still yet.

"Mit einer SF 5 unternimmt der Sablatnig Flugzeugbau einen Versuch, eine neue, weitere Produktionsrichtung zu eröffnen, die in der Folge möglichst mehr Aufträge bringen sollte. Ein Flugzeug erhält statt der Schwimmer ein Fahrwerk, von Seehase kurz SF 5 auf Rädern genannt. Es wird zum Vorläufer für den Landflugzeugbau, der 1917 beginnt. Dieses Schulflugzeug erhält die Bezeichnung B 1. Entgegen vielen Beschreibungen hat dieses Landflugzeug nichts mit der SF 6 zu tun. Deren Entwurf nutzt zumindest in den Abmessungen den gleichen Rumpf wie die SF 4-Varianten. ..."

(With the SF 5 Sablatnig aircraft manufacturing tries to start a new branch, in an attempt to gain more orders. One example gets a wheeled landing gear, insted of floats, designated by Seehase just as "SF 5 on wheels". This was the predecessor of the land plane production, which started in 1917. Contrary to many publications, it had nothing to do with the SF 6. That was a a variant, that used a fuselage of the same dimensions, as the SF 4)