Hobart-class AWD (Air Warfare Destroyer)

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Donald McKelvy
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Published on Jun 14, 2013

A computer-generated animation has been released today which highlights the multi-mission capability of the three naval destroyers being built as part of the Air Warfare Destroyer Project. AWD Alliance CEO Rod Equid said the animation will increase understanding of the exceptional capabilities available in the Hobart Class and provide an insight into how the ships can be used in-service.

http://youtu.be/kwUvIDyQACE

“The destroyers will provide the Royal Australian Navy with the most capable warships they have ever operated, with a sophisticated range of both offensive and defensive weapons,” Mr Equid said.

“They will be able to assume a leading Command and Control role with Australian and Coalition forces.”

“The animation will be shown to defence personnel and is also expected to be used for recruiting purposes to help attract people interested in joining the forces and serving on the ships in the future.”

Each AWD will be crewed by 180 men and women from the Royal Australian Navy, with initial training scheduled to start in early 2014.

The AWD Project is progressing well with the first destroyer, Hobart, now almost 50 per cent consolidated at Techport in Adelaide. Since September last year, 15 of 31 blocks have been joined or are in the process of being joined to form the rapidly growing structure.

It is expected that the consolidation of the entire hull will be complete early in 2014 with the launch planned for the second half of 2014.

The AWD project is the most complex naval ship construction program ever undertaken in Australia and is currently Australia’s largest defence procurement project. It is building Australia’s industry capability and skills in the naval shipbuilding sector for future naval shipbuilding projects.

Source:
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1088
 
Published on Jun 14, 2013

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index....
A computer-generated animation has been released today which highlights the multi-mission capability of the three naval destroyers being built as part of the Air Warfare Destroyer Project. AWD Alliance CEO Rod Equid said the animation will increase understanding of the exceptional capabilities available in the Hobart Class and provide an insight into how the ships can be used in-service.

http://youtu.be/kwUvIDyQACE
 
Got to love the big red Roo on the superstructure...
 
http://elpdefensenews.blogspot.ie/2013/11/more-dmo-failure-air-warfare-destroyer.html
 
Great ships, fantastic capability, very well built and a huge advance on what came before.

Unfortunately, too small, too lacking in capability and too few of them, delivered a decade too late. This is nothing against the designers, builders or operators but rather an indictment of the political decision makers.

The F-100 based design would have made more sense if six to nine were ordered a decade earlier as a replacement for the DDGs and the FFGs. No need for an FFG upgrade, no need for an ANZAC class upgrade, no need for OPVs, no ship building black hole, no need to rebuild the industry, not once but twice. Most importantly, a usable, capable fleet in being, i.e. no capability gap and enough hulls to maintain capability while upgrading the earlier ships.
 
Great ships, fantastic capability, very well built and a huge advance on what came before.

Unfortunately, too small, too lacking in capability and too few of them, delivered a decade too late. This is nothing against the designers, builders or operators but rather an indictment of the political decision makers.

The F-100 based design would have made more sense if six to nine were ordered a decade earlier as a replacement for the DDGs and the FFGs. No need for an FFG upgrade, no need for an ANZAC class upgrade, no need for OPVs, no ship building black hole, no need to rebuild the industry, not once but twice. Most importantly, a usable, capable fleet in being, i.e. no capability gap and enough hulls to maintain capability while upgrading the earlier ships.
I can't see 9, but 6 would have been a great plan.

That the Aussie government turned down the offered 4th was a serious indictment against the civilian government, in my opinion.
 
Indeed 6 would probably be the best outcome and thus buy more time for the Hunter class to be sorted out. Also reduce the Hunter class buy if need be.
 
Great ships, fantastic capability, very well built and a huge advance on what came before.

Unfortunately, too small, too lacking in capability and too few of them, delivered a decade too late. This is nothing against the designers, builders or operators but rather an indictment of the political decision makers.

The F-100 based design would have made more sense if six to nine were ordered a decade earlier as a replacement for the DDGs and the FFGs. No need for an FFG upgrade, no need for an ANZAC class upgrade, no need for OPVs, no ship building black hole, no need to rebuild the industry, not once but twice. Most importantly, a usable, capable fleet in being, i.e. no capability gap and enough hulls to maintain capability while upgrading the earlier ships.
I can't see 9, but 6 would have been a great plan.

That the Aussie government turned down the offered 4th was a serious indictment against the civilian government, in my opinion.
The original requirement in the early 90s was for up to nine FFG/DDG, of a singe type, to replace the 3 DDG and 6 FFG during the first decade of the new millennium. This was to supplement the eight ANZAC class patrol frigates, while the Fremantle class patrol boats were to be replaced by a class of missile corvettes.

Later on a plan to upgrade the newest pair FFGs to serve along side the projected replacements for the three Adams/Perth Class DDGs and the first four, US built, FFGs was extended to upgrade and life extension of all six FFGs as an interim alternative to replacing the DDGs. Then there was an offer of the four Kidd Class DDGs that was rejected, because it would have entailed retirement of two FFGs. Somewhat ironically the FFGUP schedule slipped, budget blew out and the scope was cut from six to four ships, resulting in a project that cost more than acquiring the Kidds (that already had received NTU), delivered less capability and still resulting in the reduction of fleet size.

Concurrently with the rejection of the Kidds, and the expansion of the FFG Upgrade Program (FFGUP), was the cancelation of the Corvettes, a life extension of the patrol boat fleet and the initiation of a Warfighting Improvement Program (WIP) for the ANZAC Patrol Frigates. WIP was based on the premise that AEGIS and SPY-1F as well as additional Mk 41 modules could be fitted on the ANZACs, this of course proved totally unachievable.

This rather long winded piece does have a point in that prior to the order of three, with an option for a fourth, Hobart Class, modified F-100, there were plans (though ultimately unsuccessful and to be honest unrealistic) for eight AEGIS ships (the ANZAC WIPs). The fleet size, before it was reduced in the late 90s, early 2000s, was sufficient to support the acquisition of eight or nine F-100s. Cancel the FGGUP, reduce the scope of the ANZAC ASMD, accelerate the AWD acquisition to follow straight on from the ANZAC build, i.e. no valley of death in naval shipbuilding, the efficiencies of building eight ships instead of just three, and there is probably more than enough money in the budget for the acquisition.

The current situation is an indictment of the civilian government, there were plans in place to acquire capability in accordance with a strategic requirement determined predominantly by geography and what was needed to secure Australia's sea line of communication. A selection process for a replacement for the Tier One combatants, the three DDGs and six FFGs was initially looking at stretched ANZACs with an NTU level of capability but would have easily evolved into a requirement for AEGIS level of capability. Clearly F-100, Daring, F124 and De Zeven Provinciën would have been contenders.

More competent and consistent policy would have conceivably resulted in a fleet of eight or more DDGs built through the 2000s.
 
I wonder if it might be worth it to dust off the Gibbs & Cox design which as I recall may have actually been the original choice of RAN for the AWD competition.
 
I wonder if it might be worth it to dust off the Gibbs & Cox design which as I recall may have actually been the original choice of RAN for the AWD competition.

You want to spend money on detailed design for yet another ship class?

No, making more F100 might make sense, but starting over with a new class (while also continuing with the Hunter class) would be a huge waste of time and money.
 
I wonder if it might be worth it to dust off the Gibbs & Cox design which as I recall may have actually been the original choice of RAN for the AWD competition.

You want to spend money on detailed design for yet another ship class?

No, making more F100 might make sense, but starting over with a new class (while also continuing with the Hunter class) would be a huge waste of time and money.
I might be a wee bit biased I always liked the design in fact I prefer it to the F 100 . Always thought it was a superior design to the Spanish one .
Larger missile battery and the ability to carry two medium helicopters.
Mind you I understand completely understand why they ended up choosing the F100.
 
I wonder if it might be worth it to dust off the Gibbs & Cox design which as I recall may have actually been the original choice of RAN for the AWD competition.

You want to spend money on detailed design for yet another ship class?

No, making more F100 might make sense, but starting over with a new class (while also continuing with the Hunter class) would be a huge waste of time and money.
I might be a wee bit biased I always liked the design in fact I prefer it to the F 100 . Always thought it was a superior design to the Spanish one .
Larger missile battery and the ability to carry two medium helicopters.
Mind you I understand completely understand why they ended up choosing the F100.

Yeah, clearly more capable, but surely more expensive too. Given the size of the G&C AWD, I wondered why not just build some Flight IIA Burkes? It would likely have been cheaper than doing all the redesign work to chop 30 feet off of the design.
 
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I wonder if it might be worth it to dust off the Gibbs & Cox design which as I recall may have actually been the original choice of RAN for the AWD competition.

You want to spend money on detailed design for yet another ship class?

No, making more F100 might make sense, but starting over with a new class (while also continuing with the Hunter class) would be a huge waste of time and money.
I might be a wee bit biased I always liked the design in fact I prefer it to the F 100 . Always thought it was a superior design to the Spanish one .
Larger missile battery and the ability to carry two medium helicopters.
Mind you I understand completely understand why they ended up choosing the F100.

Yeah, clearly more capable, but surely more expensive too. Given the size of the G&C AWD, I wondered why not just build some Flight IIA Burkes? It would likely have been cheaper than doing all the redesign work to chop 30 feet off of the design.
The final G&C was as large as larger* than a Burke. The International Frigate, which is the name G&C initially used, was quite different to the Burke, it was designed to have longer range (but lower speed), smaller crew, improved radar horizon. For all intents and purposes, it was a new design and would have taken much more effort to build as it required detail design and had nowhere near a design baseline.

The Flight IIA, or even a modified Flight IIA was eliminated by the bastardisation Kinard procurement process. There was a down select to the preferred evolved option (International Frigate) and the preferred existing option (F-100) eliminating all other possibilities. The trouble is the F-100 didn't meet requirements but when the G&C became unworkable the F-100 was the only option. The misapplied selection process ruled out the best options, which my understanding is, evolved Flight IIA Burke, Evolved F-100, and as an outside, an evolved F123. There was also a proposed Daring with AEGIS and SPY3.

The Burke would/could have had HEDS (Hybrid Electric Drive System, increased power generation capacity, many pneumatic systems replaced by electric and many other already developed incremental upgrades reducing maintenance and hence manning requirements while increasing reliability and efficiency.

The Evolved F-100 would have had a larger VLS, increased power generation, a second helicopter. The other two were far more speculative but lower risk that the G&C option.

* What the RAN really needed if you look at their requirements was a modified KDX III or six to nine smaller ships, what the government was prepared to pay for was a sailing dingy, end result, scope creep.
 
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The final G&C was as large as a Burke.

Very close, definitely. We actually have a thread on the other AWD designs that includes slides on the 2006 and 2007 versions of the G&C AWD. https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/australia-sea-4000-air-warfare-destroyer-awd.11001/

Those final iterations were 148m long (overall), just 7m shorter than the Flt IIA. Weirdly, full-load displacement drops by >1000 tons, which to me suggests they are measuring it differently because there's no way they shaved 12% of the ship's displacement by cutting 5% off the length. Beam at the waterline was the same. Draft might have changed a little, but I can't find comparable numbers (AWD gives molded draft, but I can only find navigational draft for the Burkes).

Weirdly, losing 32 VLS cells out of this design had no obvious impact on length, since the VLS sits between the hangars and doesn't directly drive centerline length. I think the length savings must have come from switching to what G&C described as Gas Turbine and Diesel propulsion, losing the uptakes for the ship-service gas turbine generator aft. I think the AWD ended up with two LM2500s instead of four, and a set of diesel generators in place of the SSGTs and other propulsion GTs. They seem to be sharing the same machinery spaces -- the AWD drawings show each stack block (associated with a MMR in the Burke) with one large GT uptake and a set of three smaller uptakes that were probably for diesels.
 
The International Frigate, which is the name G&C initially used, was quite different to the Burke, it was designed to have longer range (but lower speed), smaller crew, improved radar horizon.

Yes, very different. All the VLS up forward (looks like 48 or maybe 64 cells) just the one RAM aft, probably a single helo hangar, and two full-size illuminators plus a STIR that might do double-duty for missiles and gun. And the aft SPY arrays pushed higher on the superstructure. Much closer to the F100 spec.

[Edited because in hindsight, it looks like the forward arrays are pushed up as well. On the DDG-51 Flight IIA, they are actually lower than the aft ones. In this ship, both sets seem higher than in the original.]


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The final G&C was as large as a Burke.

Very close, definitely. We actually have a thread on the other AWD designs that includes slides on the 2006 and 2007 versions of the G&C AWD. https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/australia-sea-4000-air-warfare-destroyer-awd.11001/

Those final iterations were 148m long (overall), just 7m shorter than the Flt IIA. Weirdly, full-load displacement drops by >1000 tons, which to me suggests they are measuring it differently because there's no way they shaved 12% of the ship's displacement by cutting 5% off the length. Beam at the waterline was the same. Draft might have changed a little, but I can't find comparable numbers (AWD gives molded draft, but I can only find navigational draft for the Burkes).

Weirdly, losing 32 VLS cells out of this design had no obvious impact on length, since the VLS sits between the hangars and doesn't directly drive centerline length. I think the length savings must have come from switching to what G&C described as Gas Turbine and Diesel propulsion, losing the uptakes for the ship-service gas turbine generator aft. I think the AWD ended up with two LM2500s instead of four, and a set of diesel generators in place of the SSGTs and other propulsion GTs. They seem to be sharing the same machinery spaces -- the AWD drawings show each stack block (associated with a MMR in the Burke) with one large GT uptake and a set of three smaller uptakes that were probably for diesels.
I usually explicitly say "unless I am mistaken / misremember / or stand corrected" I should have this time. I have been reliably informed the final G&C design was larger than a Burke and was still growing when the F-100 was selected. I joined the project after the selection, colleagues were there before and worked on the Evolved option. Many years ago now, so as to current capability and development I have no idea.
 
The final G&C was as large as a Burke.

Very close, definitely. We actually have a thread on the other AWD designs that includes slides on the 2006 and 2007 versions of the G&C AWD. https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/australia-sea-4000-air-warfare-destroyer-awd.11001/

Those final iterations were 148m long (overall), just 7m shorter than the Flt IIA. Weirdly, full-load displacement drops by >1000 tons, which to me suggests they are measuring it differently because there's no way they shaved 12% of the ship's displacement by cutting 5% off the length. Beam at the waterline was the same. Draft might have changed a little, but I can't find comparable numbers (AWD gives molded draft, but I can only find navigational draft for the Burkes).

Weirdly, losing 32 VLS cells out of this design had no obvious impact on length, since the VLS sits between the hangars and doesn't directly drive centerline length. I think the length savings must have come from switching to what G&C described as Gas Turbine and Diesel propulsion, losing the uptakes for the ship-service gas turbine generator aft. I think the AWD ended up with two LM2500s instead of four, and a set of diesel generators in place of the SSGTs and other propulsion GTs. They seem to be sharing the same machinery spaces -- the AWD drawings show each stack block (associated with a MMR in the Burke) with one large GT uptake and a set of three smaller uptakes that were probably for diesels.
I usually explicitly say "unless I am mistaken / misremember / or stand corrected" I should have this time. I have been reliably informed the final G&C design was larger than a Burke and was still growing when the F-100 was selected. I joined the project after the selection, colleagues were there before and worked on the Evolved option. Many years ago now, so as to current capability and development I have no idea.

It's certainly possible that there were other iterations not reflected in the published slides.
 
The final G&C was as large as a Burke.

Very close, definitely. We actually have a thread on the other AWD designs that includes slides on the 2006 and 2007 versions of the G&C AWD. https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/australia-sea-4000-air-warfare-destroyer-awd.11001/

Those final iterations were 148m long (overall), just 7m shorter than the Flt IIA. Weirdly, full-load displacement drops by >1000 tons, which to me suggests they are measuring it differently because there's no way they shaved 12% of the ship's displacement by cutting 5% off the length. Beam at the waterline was the same. Draft might have changed a little, but I can't find comparable numbers (AWD gives molded draft, but I can only find navigational draft for the Burkes).

Weirdly, losing 32 VLS cells out of this design had no obvious impact on length, since the VLS sits between the hangars and doesn't directly drive centerline length. I think the length savings must have come from switching to what G&C described as Gas Turbine and Diesel propulsion, losing the uptakes for the ship-service gas turbine generator aft. I think the AWD ended up with two LM2500s instead of four, and a set of diesel generators in place of the SSGTs and other propulsion GTs. They seem to be sharing the same machinery spaces -- the AWD drawings show each stack block (associated with a MMR in the Burke) with one large GT uptake and a set of three smaller uptakes that were probably for diesels.
I usually explicitly say "unless I am mistaken / misremember / or stand corrected" I should have this time. I have been reliably informed the final G&C design was larger than a Burke and was still growing when the F-100 was selected. I joined the project after the selection, colleagues were there before and worked on the Evolved option. Many years ago now, so as to current capability and development I have no idea.

It's certainly possible that there were other iterations not reflected in the published slides.
The evolved design was a design concept that required detailed design if selected. One of the main reasons the F-100 was selected is the government thought it was lower risk, ironically in selecting it they cut back on engineering and design capability, as well as build assurance on the assumption a build to print was easy, it wasn't.

Ironically an evolved F-100, with extensive Australian involvement in the detailed design and supply chain likely would have proceeded more smoothly as the required engineering, design and build assurance would have been in place from the start. Same if the Flight II Burke with minor improvements had been selected as the existing design, the embedded BIW personnel would have ensured this platform that they were highly experienced with proceeded with minimal issues.
 
I am curious as to what baseline they will be built? Will they be equivalent to the upgraded Hobarts, will they be modified or improved in other ways, or will they be repeat Hobarts, coming out of the yard in need of upgrade? Not saying it can't be done but in my experience, simple solutions never are simple.
No idea yet as it is still simply an unsolicited proposal (well not even that far as I understand it - probably more of a musing ;)). If it went ahead I am sure there would be efforts to introduce some upgrades/improvements but nothing too radical and quite possibly things that would be able to be retrofitted to the first ones.
 

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