OTOMATIC air defense tank

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tround

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would somebody have photographs of the 76mm rounds ?
 

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Since the gun itself is based on the naval 76mm L/62, the ammunition would be the standard 76x900R.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/76mm_dummy_shell.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/US_Navy_080720-N-3931M-078_Cpl._Boris_Rojas_loads_an_ammunition_into_the_magazine_of_a_76_mm_gun_aboard_the_Chilean_navy_frigate_CS_Riveros_%28FF18%29_during_a_Rim_of_the_Pacific_%28RIMPAC%29_2008_exercise_off_the_coast_of_Hawaii.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/76mmShell.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/US_Navy_100522-N-9301W-318_Gunner%27s_Mate_2nd_Class_Joeseph_Christos_loads_a_76mm_round_into_the_main_deck_gun_for_a_firing_exercise_aboard_the_guided-missile_frigate_USS_Klakring_%28FFG_42%29.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/FFG57_021022-N-4309A-379.jpg
 
On a human scale.

Thank you CostasTT.
 
A heavily redesigned turret has reappeared in the past couple years intended specifically for C-RAM use on a Centauro armored car hull No takers so far, I can think of many reasons why but it wasn't a bad idea for a quick solution.
 

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Sea Skimmer said:
A heavily redesigned turret has reappeared in the past couple years intended specifically for C-RAM use on a Centauro armored car hull No takers so far, I can think of many reasons why but it wasn't a bad idea for a quick solution.
Click to expand...

Next to the photo from my website you posted, there is this information about it:

P1010702w.jpg
 
tround said:
On a human scale.

Thank you CostasTT.
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You are most welcome.

Here are some more pics of the Otomatic, both on OF-40 and Leopard 1 chassis.
 

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If I recall correctly, the main reason behind this was the ability to hit helecopters outside the maximum range of their ATGW's.

Obviously once helicopter launched ATGW's ranges started to get around the 8 to 10 kilometer mark, it made the Otomatic less attractive over the vanilla 35mm guns usually used in this role.
 
kaiserbill said:
Obviously once helicopter launched ATGW's ranges started to get around the 8 to 10 kilometer mark, it made the Otomatic less attractive over the vanilla 35mm guns usually used in this role.
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True, but the new DART guided HEFSDS system should transform the effectiveness of the 76mm in the long-range AA role.
 
I agree with tony.

The guided HEFSDS shell also has a short time of flight(5 sec to 5km) compared to the 35mm Hei and the 40mm PFHE Mark2.
 

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Tony Williams said:
kaiserbill said:
Obviously once helicopter launched ATGW's ranges started to get around the 8 to 10 kilometer mark, it made the Otomatic less attractive over the vanilla 35mm guns usually used in this role.
Click to expand...

True, but the new DART guided HEFSDS system should transform the effectiveness of the 76mm in the long-range AA role.
Click to expand...

It is an aside - but do you think that equivalent munitions (or at least precisely time fused munitions) could be driving the trend towards bigger automatic cannons in the next generation of Russian vehicles? Or do you think it is just part of a trend to increase caliber sizes overall?
 
Avimimus said:
It is an aside - but do you think that equivalent munitions (or at least precisely time fused munitions) could be driving the trend towards bigger automatic cannons in the next generation of Russian vehicles? Or do you think it is just part of a trend to increase caliber sizes overall?
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Which ones did you have in mind? If you mean the new version of the 57mm gun fitted to some amphibious recce vehicles, that is primarily intended for ground fighting AFAIK, and so far lacks any sophisticated ammo (not even a prox fuse).
 
kaiserbill said:
If I recall correctly, the main reason behind this was the ability to hit helecopters outside the maximum range of their ATGW's.
Click to expand...

That was the simple argument the media upped and ran with. The big difference is that a 76mm shell in the 1970s and 80s could be (and was) fitted with a proximity fuse (infra red). So the shells would airburst just before the target making a huge difference to lethality. Of course now with miniaturised computers and the like there are rounds like 35mm AHED and 40mm 3P which provide a similar boost in lethality. But these were exotic concepts in the 1980s.
 
A more basic issue is when realize just how much such a large vehicle is going to cost to buy and operate and support in battle, and see that a MANPADS has more range and is fire and forget and can be fired by two guys with a jeep, any real advantage of firing a 76mm shell becomes very small. The radar guidance system makes it harder to counter electronically, but you pay a small fortune for it at the same time.


The C-RAM role is far more appealing because at that point cost issues are less relevant, the entire goalis to spend a small fortune to save people, and the much higher number of engagements before reloading makes shellfire much more favorable then any existing missile system could be. The ongoing US Army EAPS program actually considered that automatic 75mm gun developed for the RDF light tank, before settling on a twin 50mm as its gun solution, being designed alongside a very small radar guided missile which I believe was test fired not long ago. Main downside of the RDF 75mm was that while automatic, it was only about 40rpm and judged not worth the trouble of improving upon.
 
"Twin 50mm"?

Interesting. That's an unusual calibre for the US. Are these completely new guns and rounds?
 
No, 50mm supershot version of the Bushmaster III chaingun brought back from the dead.
 
Abraham Gubler said:
Of course now with miniaturised computers and the like there are rounds like 35mm AHED and 40mm 3P which provide a similar boost in lethality. But these were exotic concepts in the 1980s.
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The multi-functional 3P fuze is relatively recent, but a prox fuze for the 40mm Bofors was fielded in the 1970s IIRC (I'm away from my sources this week).
 
Sea Skimmer said:
No, 50mm supershot version of the Bushmaster III chaingun brought back from the dead.
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It's a little more complicated than that. The 50x330 cartridge case from the Supershot is used, but the guided projectile is much longer, sticking so far out of the case that the cartridge can't fit into the Bushy III. The gun is accordingly a hybrid of parts from the Bushy III and IV (which was developed for 40x365 Bofors ammo).
 
the 50x330 supershot has a length of 387mm ,the EAPS a length of 538mm.
 

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Sea Skimmer said:
The ongoing US Army EAPS program actually considered that automatic 75mm gun developed for the RDF light tank, before settling on a twin 50mm as its gun solution, being designed alongside a very small radar guided missile which I believe was test fired not long ago.
Click to expand...


Sounds like this one:


EAPS.jpg



Re the missile test - you are correct (see here)


mfc-pr-eaps-060712-photo-02.jpg
 
Here is an article on the OTOMATIC from US Armor magazine. Has some details on its design and opinion about possible use.
 

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Thank's CostasTT, I think this is the first time I've seen the Otomatic in it's travelling/storage configuration.

Regards
Pioneer
 

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Wow, that's a huge turret for the OTOMATIC... Not sure I can see it viable today as an SPAAG, but stick one on the back of a truck or trailer as a CRAM? heck yes.
 

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