RUR-4 Weapon Alpha/Able

Blacktail

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Most of us have heard of the RUR-5 ASROC anti-submarine rocket system, but I'll bet few of you know about it's predecessor --- the RUR-4 Weapon Alpha (also called "Weapon Able", for some reason).

There's data on it here...;
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/r-4.html

...and this is a photo of the launcher doing it's thing;
rur-4a.jpg


Unlike the ASROC, which carries a nuclear warhead or a Mk.46 Torpedo, the Weapon Able drops a conventional depth charge into the water (you'd better be a damned good shot to nail a sub!), and has only a single launch tube. That said, it's pretty obvious why it never caught-on.


Obviously, that's stuff you can find anywhere on the internet, but I have a story about this weapon that I'm fairly sure has NEVER been seen on the 'net before.

My father was an officer on the USS Carpenter (DD-825), which was one of only a handful of warships ever fitted with the Weapon Alpha. She was also one of the first to carry the Weapon Alpha, so she was a sort of a testbed if you will. Now, this being the US Navy, that also meant that she was a showcase for selling Congress on giving the Navy more funding, by showing-off her shiny new toys.

In one such occasion, my father tells me, the Carpenter played host to a large delegation of VIPs, who were treated to a demonstration of the weapons on-board (others of which were *also* very uncommon stuff, like the Mk.37 twin 3"/70 gun). As the crew trained the launcher all over the place, CDR Melvin Earl Bustard (the ship's CO) gave a detailed summary of the weapon's role, specifications, history, capabilities, and so on, and eventually the Weapon Alpha came to a complete stop. Bustard told the delegation that this "dry run" indicated that weapon had locked-onto the target, fired, and the target had been destroyed.

In reality, the Weapon Alpha turret stopped suddenly because it broke down! XD


Here's a photo of the Carpenter, in which the RUR-4 Weapon Alpha and Mk.37 3" gun turret are both visible;
WNUS_3-70_mk37_Carpenter_pic.jpg
 
There was also Hedgehog spigot mortars back in the day.
 
Blacktail said:
.... the Weapon Able drops a conventional depth charge into the water ..., and has only a single launch tube. That said, it's pretty obvious why it never caught-on.

From what I've read about Weapon Alpha, it actually was an equivalent to the British Limbo three barreled mortar, but instead of firing one salvo of depth charges,
it fired them in quick succession, so forming an individual pattern and (theoretically) increasing probability of kill. Problem was, as you mentined, the mechanical
complexity of the system. Advantage about Hedgehog were the much larger, time or proximity fused depth charges.
Interesting system nevertheless !
 
Jemiba said:
Advantage about Hedgehog were the much larger, time or proximity fused depth charges.

The other mortars you mention also had more launch tubes than the RUR-5 Weapon Alpha, and as it turns out, the Carpenter carried the Hedgehog system and depth charges as well. ;)
 
Weapon Alfa seems to have worked okay in the end, its loading system was very similar to that of shore bombardment rocket launchers that were used to the end of the Vietnam War. It didn't catch on because it was rather big and expensive to retrofit multiple mounts to most war built escorts, and the far superior ASROC system had appeared by the time serious spending on FRAM commenced.


Has anyone ever come across any diagrams or pictures of Weapon Bravo? This was supposed to be like Alfa, but with 50lb instead of 250lb rockets making it more or less an automatic firing hedgehog and much closer in scale to the shore bombardment launchers. It was abandon as too small to be worthwhile at some point.
 
Sea Skimmer said:
Has anyone ever come across any diagrams or pictures of Weapon Bravo? This was supposed to be like Alfa, but with 50lb instead of 250lb rockets making it more or less an automatic firing hedgehog and much closer in scale to the shore bombardment launchers. It was abandon as too small to be worthwhile at some point.

Weapon Bravo is mentioned here...;
http://www.harpoondatabases.com/encyclopedia/Entry3127.aspx

...and here;
http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/133920.aspx


It seems it was also known as "Weapon B" (Weapon Alpha was also called "Weapon A"), hence the names (Able/Alpha = A; Bravo = B);
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/r-4.html

I can't confirm this, but it would appear that these two different projectiles are meant to be fired from the same launcher.
 
Hmm, interesting, that would imply that Weapon Bravo was a considerably extended range weapon then?
 
Sea Skimmer said:
Hmm, interesting, that would imply that Weapon Bravo was a considerably extended range weapon then?

I have no idea, but with only 1/5th the payload, I would assume so.
 
In Norman Friedmans "Modern Warship", it's mentioned as "Weapon Baker":
..., there was also to have been a Weapon Baker ("B" in the US phonetic alphabet) suitable for smaller craft,
but its much lighter explosive charge would not have been effective against fast submarines and it was abandoned
in 1946"
 
Here is how Friedman mentions 'Weapon B' in "U.S. Destroyers - An Illustrated Design History" (p. 197):

In April 1945, the Bureaus of Ordnance and Ship presented a report to the CNO. [...] The report proposed [...] two new ahead-throwing weapons, "A" (Alfa) and "B" trainable launchers for fast-sinking 250- and 50-pound influence or depth-fuzed rockets. Ranges of 400 to 800 yards were envisaged; Weapon B was intended for lighter ASW warships. Both were regarded as far superior to the British fixed-range, limited train Squid.

It would be really fascinating to learn more on Weapon B. Any ideas where to seek information?

Piotr
 
Sea Skimmer said:
Weapon Alfa seems to have worked okay in the end, its loading system was very similar to that of shore bombardment rocket launchers that were used to the end of the Vietnam War.

Have you meant WW2-vintage Mark 102 and Mark 105 launchers?
Piotr
 
Here's some photos of Weapon A installed on DL-1
 

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Diagram of the Weapon A system from a book at the US Navy Department Library in the DC Navy Yard.
 

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It may be of interest that according to Norman Friedman ('US Destroyers - An Illustrated Design History', p. 256) originally the US Navy planned a four-barrel model of Weapon A (with 200 round per launcher). Later they opted for one-barrel version (and the magazine capacity was halfed).

Here is a drawing of a ASW conversion of a Fletcher-class destroyer in which what apparently is such a 4-barrel weapon may be seen. The drawing comes from the book (p. 265).

Piotr
 

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It may be of interest that according to Norman Friedman ('US Destroyers - An Illustrated Design History', p. 256) originally the US Navy planned a four-barrel model of Weapon A (with 200 round per launcher). Later they opted for one-barrel version (and the magazine capacity was halfed).

Here is a drawing of a ASW conversion of a Fletcher-class destroyer in which what apparently is such a 4-barrel weapon may be seen. The drawing comes from the book (p. 265).

Piotr
And here you've got a drawing of the Fletcher conversion in high resolution in which the four-tube anti-submarine rocket launcher is clearly visible. The drawing comes from the 'Spring Styles Volume 4' that is being linked (so may be downloaded) in another thread: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/us-navy-spring-styles-ship-designs-book-4-1946-1954.39443/
 

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Just out of curiosity what is the device mounted on the X or D turret mounting, I can't enlarge the picture enough to read the label.

Regards.
 
It may be of interest that according to Norman Friedman ('US Destroyers - An Illustrated Design History', p. 256) originally the US Navy planned a four-barrel model of Weapon A (with 200 round per launcher). Later they opted for one-barrel version (and the magazine capacity was halfed).

Here is a drawing of a ASW conversion of a Fletcher-class destroyer in which what apparently is such a 4-barrel weapon may be seen. The drawing comes from the book (p. 265).

Piotr
And here you've got a drawing of the Fletcher conversion in high resolution in which the four-tube anti-submarine rocket launcher is clearly visible. The drawing comes from the 'Spring Styles Volume 4' that is being linked (so may be downloaded) in another thread: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/us-navy-spring-styles-ship-designs-book-4-1946-1954.39443/
Kinda reminds me of the Bofors Depth Charge Projector.

This one.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y26hOlEP7QM
 
Kinda reminds me of the Bofors Depth Charge Projector.

This one.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y26hOlEP7QM

How does the Bofors 375-mm ASW rocket launcher compare with the Weapon Alpha? Did the US Navy ever tested and considered adopting the Bofors 375-mm ASW rocket launcher instead of the Weapon Alpha?

Several of Japan's post-WWII warships such as the Akizuki class destroyers and the Isuzu class destroyer escorts were initially armed with the Weapon Alpha before replacing them with license-built versions of the Bofors 375-mm ASW rocket launcher.
 
Most of us have heard of the RUR-5 ASROC anti-submarine rocket system, but I'll bet few of you know about it's predecessor --- the RUR-4 Weapon Alpha (also called "Weapon Able", for some reason).
At the time of design, the US was using the WW2 phonetic alphabet.

A=Able
B=Baker
C=Charlie
D=Dog
E=Easy
...

By the time it was deployed, the US had changed to the International Phonetic Alphabet
Alpha
Bravo
Charlie
Delta
Echo
...
 

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