German rockets A-12 and A-13 projects are real or fiction?

I was studying the subject and found these pictures A13, A12 and A11. Anyone have more info?
In which book can I find more details?

Miraglia
www.edgeofspace.org

The A-11 and A-12 seem to have existed solely within von Braun's mind, and probably were only really described in the early post-war years. Evidence suggests that he used the A-11/12 as a way to impress the US Army, to help buy him a better place in the American rocket program.

The A-13 is fiction.

Maybe it would be a good idea to study Wernher von Brauns life career before studying the large
amount of his projects. This could relativise some of his published ideas.

miraglia said:

I was studying the subject and found these pictures A13, A12 and A11. Anyone have more info?
In which book can I find more details?

Miraglia
www.edgeofspace.org

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Miraglia, many thanks ! I also like this staff! Maby more info in this book: http://www.amazon.com/HITLERS-MIRACLE-WEAPONS-VOLUME-Intercontinental/dp/1906033005

Fact is that A-11 and A-12 pup up after the War
in US Military documentation about German Rocket technology, based on interviews of Von Braun made during first interrogation by US officer in Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Bavaria.
Later he made some study during his imprisonment (1945-49) in Fort Bliss, Texas USA.
From there they made V2 test flight at near by White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico.

Acutely how far were the Von Braun "Aggregate" at end of War ?
He worked on A4b a winged V2 for longer range, two test flight with not much success until January 1945
Design he worked on A9 a enlarged winged A4 with 30% more thrust, the A4b were aerodynamic test for A9

A8 that were Storable fuel- Pressure feed version of A4
That rocket team ended up in France after the War, there made design work on the "Super V-2" after it cancellation, they worked on French Veronique the Grandmother of French Rockets...

A10/A9 was seems not Von Braun Idea, but attribute to Ludwig Roth und Graupe, depending the Source material.
there some indication that SS were building a Rocket Production site, south of Mittelwerk what could be for A10/A9, but the Plans are lost so we never know for certain.

A11/10/A9 depending the Source material.
Von Braun talked already about it in 1945 during first interrogation by US officer in Garmisch-Partenkirchen.
but since the Official documents about A11 are USA origin and there no german ww2 documents available (lost in US or Russian archive ?!)
for moment the A11 is highly speculative brain child of Von Braun

this A-11 picture is made in USA not in Germany !

I agree with Michel, the A9/A10 is historically recognized as German wartime ongoing project.
Any other designation after it could be only in von Braun's mind, and they appeared only after that he gone to Fort Bliss.

Smile when you mention my area! :-D

XP67_Moonbat said:

Smile when you mention my area! :-D

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Ok: Fort Bliss... ;D

XP67_Moonbat said:

Smile when you mention my area! :-D

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i smile also ;D
it's nice place
see how happy the 104 germans rocket engineers and scientist are in Fort Bliss :

It's our almost perpetual sunny weather.

Hi, miraglia, this is what i faund :

Sources: David Myhra: Peenemunde-the german exsperimental rocket center
and Igor Witkovsky: Bron rakietowa w II wojnie swiatowej

If needed i can translate (approximately) text from Polish

carmelo said:

"Von Braun aimed for the stars and...... sometimes hit London".

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It was critical response after a 60's movie devoted to von Braun's years at Peenmunde.
It was also quoted out inside the James Michener's "Space" novel.

Well, here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJ9HrZq7Ro

Good Evening Everyone,

Is there any opinion regarding controlling / coordinating so many rocket engines in one vehicle, during the 1940's? I would think it would be quite difficult.

SAustin16 said:

Good Evening Everyone,

Is there any opinion regarding controlling / coordinating so many rocket engines in one vehicle, during the 1940's? I would think it would be quite difficult.

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They would almost certainly be ganged together in bunches... push button, receive a hundred engines all hooked up to the same plumbing manifold and pump. This is one of those ideas that sounds great early one when you haven't yet run into all the problems.

And more text from the Witkovsky book:

I think that A-12 was "last" in line..But He think atherway!

Good analysis, Scott. It certainly would have been interesting to watch an initial launch...from a distance.

SAustin16 said:

Good analysis, Scott. It certainly would have been interesting to watch an initial launch...from a distance.

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And upwind. Keep in mind that von Braun invented the notion of the A-11/A-12 in the post-war years, while he was thinking about what would become the Collier's Ferry Rocket... so they would have been fueled with red fuming nitric acid and UDMH. Both are fantastic chemicals to avoid breathing.

Orionblamblam said:

SAustin16 said:

Good analysis, Scott. It certainly would have been interesting to watch an initial launch...from a distance.

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And upwind. Keep in mind that von Braun invented the notion of the A-11/A-12 in the post-war years, while he was thinking about what would become the Collier's Ferry Rocket... so they would have been fueled with red fuming nitric acid and UDMH. Both are fantastic chemicals to avoid breathing.

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oh actually the guy design the A9/A10 think about nitric acid with diesel oil or even more gruesome Mixture: nitric acid and vinylic ethers...