Lockheed Martin F-35 Thread

GTX said:
sublight is back said:
Maybe its time to call in some physicists and figure out what it is they don't know about the OBOGS system.

There is a lot of research etc already underway.

People should also remember that this is an issue affecting multiple aircraft types - for example, the F/A-18s are being affected as well. Mind you, the naysayers and opportunistic journalists don't recognise or mention that... :mad:

I could be wrong but isn't there one supplier for all OBOGGS systems onboard all these aircraft?
 
The AV-8B had OBOGS. Most US and British systems, and the system on the Gripen, come out of either Bendix or Honeywell (UK technology, ex-Normalair). However, they are not all the same: the Typhoon system's oxygen concentrator has an infinitely variable rate and the system constantly monitors oxygen content.
 
LowObservable said:
The AV-8B had OBOGS. Most US and British systems, and the system on the Gripen, come out of either Bendix or Honeywell (UK technology, ex-Normalair). However, they are not all the same: the Typhoon system's oxygen concentrator has an infinitely variable rate and the system constantly monitors oxygen content.

Did they have problems with them back in the 80s-90s? Just seems like everybody is getting their turn in the barrel these days with their OBOGS (F-22, F/A-18, Goshawk, F-35) ???
 
FighterJock said:
Strange that it was the F-22 first then the F/A-18 Hornet and now the F-35, though it looks as if it is only a quarter of the F-35's at Luke Air Force Base are affected. According to The Guardian newspaper.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/13/dozens-of-f-35-fighter-jets-grounded-in-us-due-to-oxygen-deprivation

And don't forget the T-45.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/04/navy-instructor-pilots-refusing-to-fly-over-safety-concerns-pences-son-affected.html

https://news.usni.org/2017/06/14/aviation-leaders-still-unsure-marines-not-facing-hypoxia-issues-navy-air-force
 
Complicated problem. The first symptom listed is a change in skin color, which is not too helpful if you're in a single-seat airplane wearing gloves. The second is confusion, which is notably hard to self-diagnose. Pilots may be loath to self-report things that could get them grounded.

A couple of years ago Elbit was pushing a helmet-mounted blood oximeter called Canary. Whatever happened to it?
 
LowObservable said:
A couple of years ago Elbit was pushing a helmet-mounted blood oximeter called Canary. Whatever happened to it?

It was evaluted over a year and half period by the Navy medical research division at WPAFB and while
it has potential there are issues with reliability and sensitivity.

"An Evaluation of the Elbit Canary and DynaSense PocketNIRS In-Flight Physiological Monitoring System"

http://www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/AD1029777
 
Cobham Breathing Sensor Could Help Solve Pilots' Oxygen Problem


Cobham’s Aircrew-Mounted Physiological Sensing System (AMPSS) is a sensor suite that monitors pilots’ inhalation and exhalation throughout a flight, according to Rob Schaeffer, company product director for environmental systems. In a nutshell, AMPSS monitors the air flow entering and leaving the pilot’s body, assessing it for changes in pressure, humidity, temperature, oxygen concentration, flow rate, carbon dioxide content—anything that might cause hypoxia-like symptoms such as lightheadedness, tingling fingers or passing out.

AMPSS is small and simple: it comprises an inhalation module located on the end of the pilot’s mask breathing hose, and an exhalation module connected to the mask’s exhalation port. The pilot hooks it on before he even walks out to the cockpit, Schaeffer said. Yet despite the system’s simplicity, this would be the first time the Pentagon has implemented such a system.

AMPSS should not be confused with Cobham’s CRU-123 oxygen monitoring unit, which monitors the oxygen output from OBOGS—not necessarily what is delivered to the pilot, Schaeffer said.

“Think of the system as a water heater. The CRU is like a thermometer telling you how hot the water is in the tank/when it leaves the tank. Then at the other end of the pipes is the bathroom sink but there is no sensor there telling you the water temperature. We want to determine the oxygen content at both ends of the system – source and consumer,” said Cobham spokesman Greg Caires in a follow-up email.

http://www.cobham.com/mission-systems/oxygen-systems/news/cobham-receives-notice-of-contract-for-pilot-breathing-sensor/
 
More on 02 issues mpacting naval T-45s in addition to the other aircraft mentioned previously:

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articles/navy-still-has-no-idea-whats-causing-aircraft-oxygen-system-failures?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB%2006.14.2017&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief


Surely the naval T-45s don't have the same OBOGGS and related oxygen monitoring equipment found in the F-35 and super bug?

So it's across the two major manufacturers, in legacy bugs and super bugs and now in the lightning. I'm not sure it's a single root cause unless there's bad flight medical data diving specifications for breathing equipment generally.
 
Seems that's exactly what they're doing a Wright Patterson AFB with baby medical using AMPSS to get O2 and CO2 readings at the mask. I'd be very curious to know if they do a nitrox style mix of natural sea level air or if pilots are just supplied with supplimental oxygen in the f-35.
http://aviationweek.com/defense/pilots-starved-oxygen-cobhams-breathing-sensor-could-help?Issue=AW-05_20170615_AW-05_354&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1&utm_rid=CPEN1000003373295&utm_campaign=10433&utm_medium=email&elq2=bb817594b3574a91aeb6dd0f1530f61e
 
phrenzy said:
Seems that's exactly what they're doing a Wright Patterson AFB with baby medical using AMPSS to get O2 and CO2 readings at the mask. I'd be very curious to know if they do a nitrox style mix of natural sea level air or if pilots are just supplied with supplimental oxygen in the f-35.
http://aviationweek.com/defense/pilots-starved-oxygen-cobhams-breathing-sensor-could-help?Issue=AW-05_20170615_AW-05_354&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1&utm_rid=CPEN1000003373295&utm_campaign=10433&utm_medium=email&elq2=bb817594b3574a91aeb6dd0f1530f61e

Thanks for the article.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay8GftbnPRY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPO9WgsH-QU
 
The interesting parts of that article:

There's been 23 physiological events across all 3 variants (15A, 3B, 5C) since 2011; 13 they were able to identify the causes of (one example I read in another article was that an F-35B taxiing behind another F-35 failed to scrub the carbon monoxide, etc out), with the other 10 cases (including the recent 5) having unknown causes.

They're also hoping to have Luke's F-35s return to flight by Tuesday afternoon on the conditions that they:

1. Temporarily restricting the F-35A’s flight envelope, as all five aircraft were operating at a similar altitude when symptoms occurred. Leonard declined to detail how the jet’s flight profile could be altered.
2. Having pilots wear sensors that measure his or her oxygen levels, which would allow analysts to make correlations between what the jet is doing with the operator’s physiological experience. Leonard said no decision has been made on this point yet, but the U.S. Air Force used similar measures when it dealt with hypoxia incidents involving the F-22.
3. Ensuring backup oxygen systems are kept “as full and capable as they can be” before every flight.
4. Mitigating physiological risk to pilots as they perform operations on the ground, so they aren’t exposed to excessively high heat or harmful exhaust gases on the ramp.
5. Improving pilot training on how to respond to physiological events and increasing communication across the medical and operations community.
 
phrenzy said:
I'd be very curious to know if they do a nitrox style mix of natural sea level air

As a counter to hyperoxia? Orbital Research's gas sensors in Cobham's AMPSS would detect that condition
along with hypercapnia assuming Option 2 above is pursued.
 

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http://breakingdefense.com/2017/06/pilots-say-f-35-superior-within-visual-range-dogfight-criticisms-laid-to-rest/
 
The F-35A's first official performance at Paris:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeqryYh_yw0
 
Exclusive: Lockheed nears $37 billion-plus deal to sell F-35 jet to 11 countries
Mon Jun 19, 2017 | 12:29pm EDT
By Mike Stone

Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) is in the final stages of negotiating a deal worth more than $37 billion to sell a record 440 F-35 fighter jets to a group of 11 nations including the United States, two people familiar with the talks said.

This would be the biggest deal yet for the stealthy F-35 jet, set to make its Paris Airshow debut this week.

The sale represents a major shift in sales practices from annual purchases to more economic multi-year deals that lower the cost of each jet.

The pricing of the jets was still not final, although the average price of the 440 jets was expected to be $85 million, the people said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the negotiations publicly.

The multi-year deal for the fighters will consist of three tranches over fiscal years 2018-2020.

A Lockheed representative said the U.S. company does not discuss negotiations on contracts and said any deal involving a "block buy" would be announced by the U.S. government. A representative for the customers including the United States did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Sunday.

Last week, representatives from 11 F-35 customer nations met in Baltimore, Maryland to discuss terms and toured a Northrop Grumman Corp (NOC.N) facility in Maryland that provides equipment for the jet. Those nations included Australia, Denmark, Israel, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Norway, Turkey, South Korea, Britain and the United States.

The memorandum of understanding being negotiated between Lockheed and the customers aims to procure 135 or more jets in fiscal year 2018 for delivery in 2020 for about $88 million per jet, the people said.

In the subsequent fiscal years, 2019 and 2020, procurement would ramp up to 150 or more jets per year.

The average price in 2019 could be $85 million for the F-35 "A" variant and could drop below $80 million in 2020, the people said. That would mark the lowest price ever paid for an F-35, making this deal an important step in reducing the overall cost of each jet.

The F-35 has been widely criticized for being too expensive, including by U.S. President Donald Trump and other U.S. officials who have criticized the Pentagon's most expensive program for delays and cost overruns. Recently, a quarter of the operating F-35 fleet was grounded until further notice because of irregularities in the pilots' oxygen supplies.

REDUCING COSTS

The memorandum of understanding will guarantee contracts will take place in each successive future year. This allows the manufacturing group led by Lockheed to take advantage of greater economies of scale, reducing the cost of each jet. They have been working to reduce the cost of the jets through streamlining the supply chain and purchasing materials in bulk.

Recently revised estimates indicate the U.S. Defence Department expects to spend $379 billion, down from $391 billion, to develop and buy 2,443 of the supersonic warplanes through 2039, one of the people said.

"This is part of an ongoing process. If it gets done, it would be a plus for Lockheed, allowing for better long-term production management," said Robert Stallard, an analyst at Vertical Research.
The F-35 comes in three configurations, the A-model for the U.S. Air Force and U.S. allies; the B-model, which can handle short take-offs and vertical landings for the Marine Corps and the British navy; and the carrier-variant F-35C jets.

In February, the Pentagon agreed to a deal for the tenth batch of the fighter aircraft and agreed to pay below $95 million per jet for the first time, compared with $102 million in the previous purchase which was the lowest price up until that point.

Around that time the Pentagon said the price of a jet could fall 16 percent to around $80 million in future purchases.

The F-35 business accounts for about 37 percent of Lockheed's total revenue. During the first quarter, Lockheed's revenue from its aeronautics business increased 8 percent to $4.1 billion, led by higher sales of the F-35.

Lockheed executives have estimated that a multi-year deal will save about $2 billion for the nations that choose to participate in the multi-year purchase.

Lockheed, the prime contractor, and its partners, including Northrop Grumman Corp (NOC.N), United Technologies Corp's (UTX.N) Pratt & Whitney and BAE Systems Plc (BAES.L), have been working on building a more cost-effective supply chain to fuel the production line in Fort Worth, Texas.

(Reporting by Mike Stone; Editing by Chris Sanders, Susan Fenton and Edmund Blair)

Source
 
https://www.facebook.com/Militarydotcom/videos/10155060144634270/

About SDB IIs but inside the belly of the F-35 "half model"
 
bobbymike said:
https://www.facebook.com/Militarydotcom/videos/10155060144634270/

About SDB IIs but inside the belly of the F-35 "half model"

Now that's going to be a nice persistence upgrade for the F35
 
Screen grabs from the video..SDB II IOC on the B/C is planned by January 2022. F-35A IOC was a year later but they are working to get it within that timeframe as well. The F-15E gets it early 2019 followed by the Predator iirc.
 

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http://www.defensenews.com/articles/german-officials-meet-with-lockheed-to-talk-f-35-at-paris-air-show
 
Flight operations for the F-35B are halted in Yuma.... for just one day.

Also, they are headed to Red Flag in a few weeks.

Flight operations in Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 211 resumed after a temporary one-day suspension to fix a problem related to a software update with the aircraft’s Autonomic Logistics Information System, the Marine Corps announced.

“Maj. Gen. Mark Wise, Commanding General of 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, made the decision to temporarily suspend VMFA-211 flight operations pending fixes to a recent ALIS software upgrade within version 2.0.2 that has presented some anomalies,” 3rd Aircraft Wing spokesman Maj. Kurt Stahl said in a Thursday afternoon statement, noting that those anomalies “are related to maintenance codes not being reflected properly in the system.”
“There is nothing wrong with the performance or safety of the aircraft itself, but it is imperative that we ensure the ground-based ALIS system is working properly before flight operations continue. The Joint Program Office and Lockheed Martin have dispatched system engineers to help resolve these issues associated with the ALIS software update.”

F-35 Joint Program Office and Lockheed Martin officials began working on the software immediately to resolve the anomalies.

“The F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) and Lockheed Martin Action Team has identified the root cause and generated the software fix to resolve the issues identified by the USMC with their F-35 MCAS Yuma based Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS), the management backbone for the F-35 Lightning II,” the JPO announced in a Friday evening statement.
“With this fix, VMAF-211 at MCAS Yuma resumed flight operations today. The JPO with LM will continue to monitor and improve ALIS performance to ensure our warfighters have the required F-35 air systems to operate safely and effectively.”

“The issues associated with the ALIS software update have been mitigated at MCAS Yuma. The performance and safety of the aircraft itself was not compromised by this software update. Reliability of equipment and safety of our personnel are among the Marine Corps’ top priorities as we continue transitioning our legacy aircraft to the F-35 in the coming years,” the Marine Corps added in the Friday evening statement.

Stahl said only VMFA-211 was affected by the stand-down, which does not apply to the Japan-based VMFA-121. Marine Corps headquarters spokeswoman Capt. Sarah Burns told USNI News earlier on Friday that VMFA-121 had not yet uploaded the software update and would wait for a fix to be discovered before installing the new ALIS software for its squadron. VMFA-211 was the first to attempt the software update and therefore was the one to discover the issues, she said.

VMFA-211 had been conducting day-to-day flight operations in Yuma, Ariz., and preparing for the Red Flag combat training exercise at Nellis Air Force Base beginning July 10, Stahl said, noting that the squadron still intends to participate in the exercise despite the short pause in operations.

https://news.usni.org/2017/06/23/26413
 
bobbymike said:
https://www.facebook.com/Militarydotcom/videos/10155060144634270/

About SDB IIs but inside the belly of the F-35 "half model"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNiDRvQQehQ
 
http://www.realcleardefense.com/2017/06/28/japan_fitting_f-35_fighters_with_advanced_missile_system_294426.html
 
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/184902/f_35-reliability-getting-worse%2C-risking-increase-to-operating-costs.html
 
Bigger pics
 

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USAF lab to start testing F-35 OBOGS this month as part of root-cause investigation


The 711th Human Performance Wing at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, OH, expects to begin assessing the F-35 Onboard Oxygen Generating System in a few weeks to help identify the root cause of a spate of recent physiological symptoms reported by pilots at Luke Air Force Base, AZ.

The wing began preparing its OBOGS laboratory June 20 and service spokesman Daryl Mayer told Inside Defense June 29 the team is likely “one to two weeks” from starting testing.

“Reconfiguration of the lab is nearing completion,” Mayer said. “Testing will begin after the lab is set up and passes check-out.”

He said the OBOGS lab at Wright-Patterson AFB was selected because of its simulation environment.

Luke AFB paused F-35A flights from June 9 to 21 after five pilots reported incidents of hypoxia-like symptoms. The service has not identified a root cause and has instituted some flight restrictions for F-35A pilots at the base.

Mayer said the 711th Human Performance Wing is working closely with the Navy Medical Research Unit to look broadly at potential causes of the pilots' symptoms. Air Force officials have said the incidents could be linked to a flaw in the OBOGS metering system -- which determines how much oxygen a pilot receives at different altitudes. Mayer said the team has not ruled out any possible causes and that oxygen metering will be just one focus of the assessment.

“OBOGS oxygen metering is done with an algorithm or control logic in the F-35,” he said. “One of our objectives is to verify the F-35 OBOGS control logic is working correctly.”

The JPO is leading the root cause investigation and, once the team identifies corrective actions, will coordinate a process for validating possible fixes, Mayer said, noting it is likely NAMRU and the wing will help develop and test the solutions.

“Once root cause(s) are identified, if system fixes are recommended, we will assist the JPO, as needed and as they direct, in assessing and verifying the effectiveness of any fixes as they're developed,” he said.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/17/ministry-defence-facing-hundreds-millions-hidden-costs-new-fighter/
 
Wait... you mean to tell me that when I buy a fighter with new tech that I also need to plan for future upgrades, spare parts, and that I need to make sure that I have the same radios if I want to take advantage of its stealth capability????.................

Say it ain't so..........

Next thing you'll be telling me is that I need to buy fuel and weapons for it.

::)
 
The new FY2018 President's Budget F-35 Selected Acquisition Report has been leaked - some new details in it (some of these have already been reported earlier mind you):

The total US buy number has risen from 2,443 to 2,456 with the USMC adding a requirement for 13 more F-35Bs.

In the last SAR, the F-35A, B & C had estimated combat radius figures of 625nmi, 467nmi and 630nmi respectively. The new SAR reports that the F-35A has now since demonstrated a (strike / interdiction) combat radius of 669nmi and the F-35B has demonstrated a combat radius of 505nmi. The F-35C doesn't have a demonstrated figure yet, but its estimated combat radius has been increased to 640nmi (I'd be willing to bet it'll demonstrate an even higher radius). The objective / threshold combat radii of each variant was 690/590nmi, 450/550nmi & 600/730nmi.

In the previous SAR they estimated that it would require a 558ft STO to launched an F-35B with 2x JDAM and 2x AMRAAM with fuel to fly 467nmi. In the new SAR they've demonstrated a 549ft STO but with the difference of it having fuel to fly 450nmi. I'm assuming the demo was done with 450nmi of fuel rather than 467nmi or 505nmi to compare the STO distance figure with the threshold & objective of 600ft.

In the previous SAR, mission reliability of the 3 variants was estimated at 97, 98 & 98% respectively; in the new SAR they've demonstrated 93, 95 & 97%. With the exception of the F-35C, those are right on the APB development threshold (93, 95, 95%).

For their logistics footprints, the A has demonstrated its threshold & previous SAR esimate of "Less than or equal to 8 C-17 equivalents", the C's demonstrated footprint is 44,900ft^3 and 222 short tons, the B's demonstrated footprint is <= eight C-17 equivalents (on land) / 18,400ft^3 and 105 short tons (at sea).

For sortie rates, they've demonstrated for the A variant: 3.4 'initial surge' /3.0 'sustained surge' /2.0 'wartime sustained' sorties per day with a 2.5hr Average Sortie Duration (ASD), for the B variant: 5.5/4.0/2.0 1.1hr ASD, for the C variant: 3.9/3.0/1.0 1.8hr ASD.

The F-35C has also demonstrated the previous estimated max approach speed at required carrier landing weight of less than 144 knots (objective / threshold was <140 / <145kts).

Compared to the last SAR, in Then-Year dollars, RDT&E rose by $364.1m, Procurement rose by $27.0747 billion, MILCON rose by $0.1m; the total program cost is now estimated at $406.4809 billion, up from $379.0420B.
In baseline year 2012 dollars RDT&E increased by $319.5m, Procurement rose by $11.1080 billion, MILCON decreased by $67.3m; the total program cost in BY2012$ is now estimated at $324.6206 billion, up from $313.2604B.
A list of why costs have risen is listed on pages 81, 82, 85 and 86. One major reason was the USAF changing their peak buy rate from 80 aircraft a year to 60, extending production from 2038 to 2044 and increasing inflation costs.
The CAPE ICE operations & sustainment costs haven't been updated / changed from last year to factor in the 13 addition F-35Bs.
 

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Here a two-part podcast for the weekend.

Podcast: F-35 in the Crossfire, Part 1
Pentagon Editor Lara Seligman leads a debate about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter with two seasoned experts – retired Marine Lt. Col. David Berke, a former F-35B and F-22 pilot and Pierre Sprey, who helped conceptualize the design of the F-16 and A-10 fighters. In this episode, they discuss whether the F-35 can fight in combat as advertised.
Link 1: http://aviationweek.com/defense/podcast-f-35-crossfire-part-1

Podcast: F-35 in the Crossfire, Part 2
Pentagon Editor Lara Seligman leads a debate about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter with two seasoned experts – retired Marine Lt. Col. David Berke, a former F-35B and F-22 pilot and Pierre Sprey, who helped conceptualize the design of the F-16 and A-10 fighters. Among the topics in this second part of the series is whether the cost of the $400 billion program is worth the capability of the aircraft.
Link 2: http://aviationweek.com/combat-aircraft/podcast-f-35-crossfire-part-2
If you want to discuss this podcast, I recommend you may start a topic at the Bar. :)
 

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