Messerschmitt Bf 110/161 Projects & Prototypes

Hi,


here is a comparison between BF.161-V2 and BF.162-V2.

The Bf110H was a proposed follow-on to the Bf110G. Given the lengthy gestation and many shortcomings of the Me210/Me410, production of the older aircraft had gone on longer than anticipated. So improvements seemed worthwhile.

I have attached my drawing of the Bf110H-5, a proposed high-altitude, single-seat destroyer. It would have combined the extended, rounded wing tips of the B-series machines with stronger wing spars, DB605D/E engines, and GM-1 nitrous-oxide injection. A large nitrous-oxide tank would have replaced rear crew positions. Armament consisted of the usual two MK108 30x90-mm guns in the nose plus a single, 30x184-mm MK103 cannon, which I have drawn in an under-fuselage gondola. The 37x263-mm BK3.7 gun was also considered for this variant.

The Bf110H-2 was an otherwise similar two-seat high-altitude fighter-bomber. The Bf110H-4 was a three-seat seat high-altitude night fighter with a new type of Ebersbacher flame dampers fitted to the engines.

The Bf110H-6 was also a three-seat night fighter but abandoned the extended wingtips and the GM-1 in favor of MW-50 methanol/water injection for higher performance below the rated altitude of the engine. Extra armor was to be fitted in the pilot's cockpit.

The H-series variants never went into production. The extended wing tips and strengthend structure were abandoned first, so that engineers could concentrate on adapting the airframe for the DB605D/E and the DB605D/E for MW-50. But it was soon realized that the DB605D/E's larger supercharger would require new engine mounts and changes to the nacelle design. Since such changes would have disrupted production of the Bf110G, the H model was abandoned.

Source: <i>Messerschmitt Bf110/Me210/Me410: an Illustrated History</i>, by Heinz Mankau and Peter Patrick (Schiffer, 2003).

Oh single seat Bf110! Thanks for sharing us a impressive drawing. I look forward your new work.
If she has a small canopy for single seat, it must be exciting shape, too.

blackkite said:

Oh single seat Bf110! Thanks for sharing us a impressive drawing. I look forward your new work.
If she has a small canopy for single seat, it must be exciting shape, too.

Click to expand...

I agree that a different canopy would be interesting--perhaps the 109's Galland hood with a fairing. But, in fact, the single-seat variant is the one shown in my drawing. The canopy is the same as for the Bf110G. If you look closely, you will see that I have drawn what I think the GM-1 tank would have looked like in what would otherwise be the rear gunner's position (the shape of the tank--based on one proposed for the Me410--and its position are no more than a guess on my part). I suspect that any advantages that a new canopy might have provided would have been offset by the production problems that the change would have caused.

Yes you are absolutely right.

Robert,

wonderful info on the 110 H! I don't spend any time researching German ac anymore so it is great to see these gems popping up.

I'm sure you are quite correct about not wanting to slow production in order to change the canopy. Even in cases where the changes in performance were quite dramatic toward the positive it could take literally years before the change was instituted. The perfect example of that is the single tail for the B-24 which I describe in some detail in my book "Consolidated Mess". Though the tests performed in 1943 on the single tail were overwhelmingly positive in terms of stability, handling, speed, drag, etc., and communications from Europe commands began to come in to DC and Wright Field almost immediately asking when they could expect new single-tail B-24s, it wasn't until the B-24N that the USAAF would have received this mod. The Navy, of course, got single-tail stretch B-24s in the form of the PB4Y-2. The long logistics trail of finding manufacturers to produce all the component parts for a new tail assembly and building up a backlog of parts to enhance manufacturing of the finished aircraft, plus the potential impact on the delivery of parts for the existing design, make it clear why this change didn't take place earlier.

Once again, nice research and drawings, Robert!

AlanG

Me 110 H?

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/bf110g.html

I came across this on the Air Britain information exchange. It seems to have stumped everyone there.
The scan is from the German magazine Jet & Prop and shows an early mark Bf 110 fitted with an Me 210 style nose (but not an actual Me 210 nose which would be deeper) and retaining the Bf 110 canopy. It seems to lack any gun armament but is fitted with bomb racks.

I wonder if this wasn't some kind of dive-bombing trainer with the new nose offering improved visibility when making ground attacks?

Hood said:

The scan is from the German magazine Jet & Prop and shows an early mark Bf 110 fitted with an Me 210 style nose (but not an actual Me 210 nose which would be deeper) and retaining the Bf 110 canopy.

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing - quite unusual!
Reminds me Arado Ad-240 forward part.

P.S. I attached screenshot from your's PDF, hope, this would increase the impression for readers.
If not - please, tell me, I'll remove the picture.

From "luft archivs" ME 210 V 1

From the book of Heinz Mankau and Peter Petrick "Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210, Me 410", page 336.
This picture shows Bf110V9 prototype

Hi Silencer

Yes, I ve the two planes in "luft archiev"

but the problem is that the registration is the same
for the two plane !!! - D-AABF ??

But the BF 110 V 9 is also GK+AS

toura said:

From "luft archivs" ME 210 V 1

Click to expand...

Not the same machine. Notice the radiator is like that of the later series 110 in the wing/trailing edge.

thanks Sienar

Having done a sweep of Google it seems this airframe (re-designated V9 with the codes GK+AS) was a converted Bf 110 B-1, but nobody seems to know the reason behind the altered nose and the same images keep appearing.

Sadly in my initial search on the forum I missed that we had a previous thread on this topic: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3929.msg52014.html#msg52014
Mods please feel free to merge these posts.

Might have been intended as a testbed for testing some of the ME 210 features.

Work on what turned into the 210 started in 1937. At first it was merely studies on how to improve the 110 commence at the behest of Udet, but as the number of improvements quickly soared to 60+ it was decided to assign it a new project number and this became the 210.

According to Griehl the V9 was used for testing a modified cabin structure and then given to a training unit who used it until '44.

From Flugzeug Classic 9/2018.

Hi,

in 1934 for heavy fighter competition,the tenders were,

Arado ?
AGO ?
BFW (Later Messerschmitt) Bf.110
Dornier ?
Focke-Wulf FW.57
Gotha ?
Heinkel ?
Henschel Hs.124

Who can full the gaps ?.

hesham said:

Hi,

in 1934 for heavy fighter competition,the tenders were,

Arado ?
AGO ?
BFW (Later Messerschmitt) Bf.110
Dornier ?
Focke-Wulf FW.57
Gotha ?
Heinkel ?
Henschel Hs.124

Who can full the gaps ?.

Click to expand...

We can say,

Arado E.500
AGO Ao.225
BFW (Later Messerschmitt) Bf.110
Dornier P.13x
Focke-Wulf FW.57
Gotha P.3
Heinkel P.101x
Henschel Hs.124

Hi! Bf 161.

Hi! Bf 110 V1 and V2.

Hi!



Explanation of the Messerschmitt Bf110 G-4
The G-4, a night fighter, was equipped with two 20 mm MG/FF guns (G-4/R8 specification) or two 30 mm MK108 cannons (G-4/R9 specification) when equipping the Schlege Musik (oblique gun). As mentioned above, the night fighter version has a radar operator on board and a crew of three. In addition, in order to wait for enemy bombers for a long time, 300 liters of drop tanks were often suspended under both wings (B2 specification).

blackkite said:

Hi!

Asisbiz Messerschmitt Bf 110D0 Zerstorer Profile 0B

Asisbiz Messerschmitt Bf 110 Zerstorer,Messerschmitt Bf 110D0 Zerstorer Profile 0B

www.asisbiz.com

Messerschmitt Bf 110 A-0: The First Zerstorer

Designed in 1934 to meet a requirement for a so-called "Kampfzerstorer" multirole fighter, the Bf 110 was one of Willy Messerschmitt's first aircraft and it took time and several improved variants to produce the aircraft the world would eventually fear and respect. The pre-production A-0 was a fa...

old-forum.warthunder.com

https://www.historynet.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Night-Terror-tech.jpg

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With all respect,these variants were built and entered production ?!.

The Messerschmitt Bf 110 H was a proposed model of the Bf 110 series of heavy fighters developed in 1943. The Bf 110 H was the final version designed, however it was cancelled after documents were lost in an air-raid on the Gotha factory.
Various features developed for the Bf 110 H were adopted to the Bf 110G models, it is unknown whether any Bf 110 H aircraft were produced.
Engine : DB 605E