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Author Topic: Various Messerschmitt projects  (Read 37123 times)

Offline richard

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Various Messerschmitt projects
« on: December 13, 2006, 04:07:03 am »
Messerschmitt Bf 165 was a long range bomber project  (1936-37 )
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 02:12:27 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2006, 05:46:25 am »
for slmvbs,

I don't know that design and I think it was new.
Messerschmitt P.1097 little known project:
it was single seat mid-wing pulse-jet fighter,developed
from P.1079.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 02:04:16 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2006, 10:08:54 am »
Messerschmitt Bf 165 was a long range bomber project  (1936-37 )

Wasn't this one loosely derived from the Bf-110?

Offline richard

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2006, 10:35:22 am »
elmayerle,There's very little published about this Bf 165
In  "Willy Messerschmitt-Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues" Bernard & Graefe Verlag page 206 there is  a sketch
and it is said than a 100 000 RM 100% mock up was built and shown to the Führer
It has nothing to do with Bf 161,Bf 162 derivatives of Bf 110 or Me 261
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 02:22:08 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2006, 11:30:55 pm »
elmayerle,There's very little published about this Bf 165
In  "Willy Messerschmitt-Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues" Bernard & Graefe Verlag page 206 there is  a sketch
and it is said than a 100 000 RM 100% mock up was built and shown to the Führer
It has nothing to do with Bf 161,Bf 162 derivatives of Bf 110 or Me 261

Looking at references at home rather than relying on memory, I agree.  I've got the English-language version of that book and the fuselage of that bomber reminds me of a scale-up of the Hampden fuselage.  ;)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 02:22:54 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline lark

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2006, 10:25:18 am »
Richard, can you show us the drawing of the Messerschmitt Bf 165
published in the Bernard & Graefe book.
Thanks in advance..
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 02:23:04 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2006, 09:30:21 am »
Dear richard,

There are Messerschmitt P.1075,P.1085 and P.1112:
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 01:43:41 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2006, 09:26:34 am »
anther project from my dear richard,

Messerschmitt P.1113 :tailless jet fighter.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2006, 09:44:21 am »
Hi,

there is Messerschmitt P.1108 in new design.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 05:35:36 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2007, 08:47:28 am »
Hi,

Messerschmitt BF109TL :was single seat fighter project of BF109
with two underwing Junkers Jumo 109-004B TURBOJET engines.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2007, 10:30:08 am »
Hi,

The Me-335 twin engined (push-pull) single seat fighter project,the Arado-234E
and Me-262 SB2.

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2008, 01:34:19 pm »
Hi,

we speak enough in the Luftwaffe projects topic,but I still have unknown projects
and aircraft,not for Luftwaffe only but it was also before 1933,so I open this topic
to refresh the subject.
in Internet I found some projects and I hope we can identify them,for example
Casper SJ was a floatplane fighter project,
did you know Messerschmitt Me.165,Me.320 and Me.368 ?.



From "Die deutsche luftfhart Willy Messerschmitt-Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues" Bernard & Graefe Verlag

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2008, 12:50:59 pm »
"did you know Messerschmitt Me.165"

Based on the infos and drawings from the book shown by Justo, I tried to make
a reconstruction of the Bf.165, see below.
To those, who want to know more about the "why" of certain details, I can send
a short summary. As always the warning : HIGHLY SPECULATIVE !
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline richard

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2008, 11:45:41 pm »
Thanks a lot Jemiba !

Speculative ,indeed ,but no more than a lot of german 45/6 "projects" "

I wonder what you could do for the Fi 168 ?

Greetings

Richard

Offline airman

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2008, 05:01:28 am »
"did you know Messerschmitt Me.165"

Based on the infos and drawings from the book shown by Justo, I tried to make
a reconstruction of the Bf.165, see below.
To those, who want to know more about the "why" of certain details, I can send
a short summary. As always the warning : HIGHLY SPECULATIVE !
but there are technical data about Me.165 ?
The year of project ?
writers , bloggers , content-curators ,  music composer and passionate of militaria and uchronia

Offline GTX

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2008, 10:33:47 am »
"did you know Messerschmitt Me.165"

Based on the infos and drawings from the book shown by Justo, I tried to make
a reconstruction of the Bf.165, see below.
To those, who want to know more about the "why" of certain details, I can send
a short summary. As always the warning : HIGHLY SPECULATIVE !
but there are technical data about Me.165 ?
The year of project ?


I believe it was from 1937.

Regards,

Greg

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2008, 11:05:09 am »
"but there are technical data about Me.165 ? The year of project ?"

Windtunneltesting was done in 1937, as well as the construction of a mock-up.
This was presented to high ranking RLM members and Hitler, with some estimated
data, as range of 6000 km with 1000 kg bombload and a maximum speed of 600 km/h.
(from the before mentioned bok)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Pepe Rezende

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2011, 02:50:51 am »
I'm looking for Me 261 interior photos and/or a cutaway. Are they available?

Cheers

Pepe
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 02:54:07 am by Pepe Rezende »

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2012, 01:57:00 pm »
2nd missed opportunity

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2012, 11:50:32 am »
Hi,


here is Messerschmitt P.1101-44 project,I've never seen like it before;


http://www.unicraft.biz/

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2012, 11:26:11 pm »
The W-shaped wing was considered in some German projects, nevertheless I somewhat doubt those
twin engined fighter and destroyer designs with the project number "P.1101/xx". The P.1101 was a
design to a specification from 1944 for a single seat, single engine fighter, some of them are shown
on Luft'46. But I can see no reason, why this number would have been usewd for designs of a totally
different class.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Basil

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2012, 08:26:21 am »
It´s definitely a fake. The Messerschmitt AG has never considered a W-wing for any project (in contrary to Blohm & Voss).

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2012, 09:34:24 am »
Well, unicraft isn't exactly, what would call a reliable source !
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline borovik

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2012, 07:51:41 am »
Earlier at the forum already had this image with a variety of the Me P.1101 (unfortunately my attempt with the function search not led to nothing.) Maybe someone will be able to name the source of this scheme?

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2012, 08:19:15 am »
Excellent my dear Borovik;


specially the biplane design,the P.1101/XVIII-108.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2012, 11:01:14 am »
I'm still not sure about the P.1101 designation of the larger types. And to me, the "biplane" probably
is the P.1109 variable geometry/oblique wing type.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2012, 05:31:28 am »
Shared by hesham in an old split topic, the Messerschmitt Me 364:

Offline toura

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2013, 04:40:58 am »
Hi all
Reading the "Minidocavia" from P Gaillard
Editions Lariviere
I look at this project !!
Do you know more ??
Thanks..
PAUL

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2013, 05:28:52 am »
My dear Toura,


we spoke about that project before,it was Messerschmitt M-34 a project of 1933
as long range record aircraft,it had 20,000 km range;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1150.msg9218.html#msg9218


and from my dear Richard,




Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2013, 06:21:27 am »
Some thoughts about the M 34 "Antipodenflugzeug":
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2013, 06:39:39 am »
I've merged the thread about the M 34 with the global thread about Messerschmitt pre-1945
projects. And as I had a look into the M 34- file again, I stumbled about the P 1012 designation.
IIRC, I started this reconstruction, when I found an article about it in an Flugzeug Classic issue.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline toura

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2013, 07:44:10 am »
Thanks Hesham and Jemiba.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2013, 07:32:21 am »
Hi,


here is some new Messerchmitt project drawings,except only for P.1108/I,from LA FANA June magazine of 2010;


1- P.1092-XVIII/45
2- P.1092-XVIII/45-2
3- P.1092C
4- P.1101-V
5- P.1108/I
6- P.1108/II
7- P.1106 new design
8- P.1106-V



Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2013, 09:48:19 am »
Fantastic set of drawings indeed.

One correction though: image before last does not depict a P.1106.
It shows a P.1092 design that was later reused for the P.1106.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2013, 09:56:05 am »
Thank you Stargazer.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2013, 09:36:05 am »
Hi,


here is a comparison between BF.161-V2 and BF.162-V2.

Online Johnbr

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2013, 03:07:17 pm »
I think this the Me 264v2.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2013, 01:24:56 am »
Another photo of obviously the same airframe is shown in R. Forsyth/E. Creek "Messerschmitt Me 264
Amerikabomber". The fuselage seems to have fallen from its rigg, as it lay up side down. But identity
isn't that clear, it may have been V 2 or V 3, with regards to that book.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2013, 05:57:46 am »
Post it here, instead of the "Missile" section, as it's still the only information I've found
and it bascally was a kind of a glider, developed in co-operation with Alexander Lippisch:
Developed during 1941, was a guided glide bomb of wooden construction, designated
"FG 03". The glider was test dropped from the Bf 161 V-1 and reached a rabge of about
20 km from a height of 4,000 m, but the second drop resulted in a total crash and the
program seem to have been stopped soon.
(from „Typenkompass – Deutsche Raketen und Lenkwaffen“ by Manfred Griehl)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2013, 06:32:37 am »
Hi,


here is from Vom Original zum Modell : Dornier Do 335 book,they spoke about
Messerschmitt project intended to compete Do.335,is that information right ?.




Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2013, 06:15:45 am »
Hi,


here is a model to Messerschmitt P.1108/II.

Offline richard

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2013, 10:12:28 am »
Hi,


here is from Vom Original zum Modell : Dornier Do 335 book,they spoke about
Messerschmitt project intended to compete Do.335,is that information right ?.


Yes , it's right .

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2013, 01:49:59 pm »
Thank you my dear Richard,


but did they give it a "P" series ?.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2013, 05:12:27 am »

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2013, 01:57:45 pm »
From "Monogram Close-up 20" (Justo Miranda drawings)  :) :) :)

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2013, 03:43:50 pm »
 ;)

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2013, 02:09:42 pm »
Hi,


here is a strange drawing to Messerschmitt Me P.1108/II bomber project.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2014, 06:25:09 am »
Hi,


what was this Messerschmitt project ?,in Luftfahrt 11/1980,they spoke about
many aircraft,and I can't ID it,here is the whole article,any help please.




Offline richard

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2014, 07:51:54 am »
It's the P 1012 , already shown here  (  :)  )


Various Messerschmitt projects


From the " Willy Messerschmitt" by Ebert , Kaiser , Peters published in 1992 by Bernard&Graefe Verlag  :






Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2014, 07:55:15 am »
Thank you my dear Richrad,


I have also this project from long time ago,but I though wrong it was not it.

Offline toura

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2014, 10:42:02 am »
Hi Hesham
From our friend Jemiba (Jens Baganz)

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2014, 02:53:40 pm »
Hi Hesham
From our friend Jemiba (Jens Baganz)


Yeh,thank you my dear Toura,


I know P.1012 very well,but I though that Model was not for it,of course I was wrong.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2014, 04:58:32 am »
Hi,


here is the Messerchmitt Bf.109 with a tricycle landing gear,also keeping on the
tail wheel.


Luftfahrt 9/1980

Offline toura

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2014, 08:33:12 am »
he Hesham
Messerschmitt bf 109 v 23
      landing gear for me 309
Messerschmitt bf 109 v 31
       large landing gear for me 309
       and radiator for the same 

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2014, 11:02:26 am »
As principally already can be seen in the photo, the tricyccle landing gear was fixed
and only used for testing the taxying and take-off/landing characteristics for the
Me 309.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2014, 02:51:43 pm »
Many thanks to you my dears Toura and Jemiba.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2014, 06:21:36 am »
Hi,


here is a Model for Messerschmitt Bf or Me.109Z aircraft,it was a well known,but
fitted with external big cannon,mounted between the two fuselage in the middle
connected section and below it,is it a real project ?.


Flugzeug Classic 1/2006

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2014, 02:21:30 pm »
Hi,


here is a Model for Messerschmitt Bf or Me.109Z aircraft,it was a well known,but
fitted with external big cannon,mounted between the two fuselage in the middle
connected section and below it,is it a real project ?.


Flugzeug Classic 1/2006


Here is the article about Me.109Z with cannon,real or fake ?.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2014, 12:35:11 pm »
Not mentioned explicitly, but the heavy anti-tank gun to my opinion is
just the product of the fantasy of the modeller and not mentioned in any
sources.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2014, 02:27:32 pm »
Not mentioned explicitly, but the heavy anti-tank gun to my opinion is
just the product of the fantasy of the modeller and not mentioned in any
sources.


Thank you my dear Jemiba for your explanation.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2014, 02:53:46 pm »
Hi,


from Flugzeug CLASSIC 3/2008,here is a small info about Messerschmitt P.1060 which led to develop
Bf.110 and early drawing to Me.210.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2014, 09:40:41 pm »
The P.1060 didn't lead to te Bf 110, but was the project number for its intended successor,
the Me 210.   ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2014, 05:00:58 am »
The P.1060 didn't lead to te Bf 110, but was the project number for its intended successor,
the Me 210.   ;)


Thank you my dear Jemiba.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2014, 05:33:42 am »
Hi,


here is the Messerschmitt Me.264 V.6 or Me.364.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2014, 09:00:33 am »
It would be interesting to get to know the source for the Me 364 designation. The drawing is the same, as
shown in Robert Forsyth "Messerschmitt Me 264" but neither the inscriptions on the drawing, nor that
book mention this designation or the identity of the Me 264 V6. Luft'46 gives "Me 364" as "unofficial",
the number of prototypes didn't exceed 3 aircraft and AFAIK before construction of the V4 was started, the
whole project was cancelled and not even the fifth prototype was ordered.
So, anybody knowing a reliable source for the"Me 364" ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2014, 09:08:43 am »
My dear Jemiba,


of course I am depend on the Luft46site  to ID this drawing,and I know the Me.364 was unofficial
designation.


the source, Motorbuch Heinkel He 177-277-274 book.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2014, 11:15:08 am »
Ok, but I would recommend either to mention that, or (probabl better) just to
ignore such "unofficial" designations or names.
Repitition of such "facts" again and again just is a way to hammer them out !
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2014, 07:13:07 am »
Hi,


here is a drawings to Messerschmitt Me.328B,from two reports,called; Messerschmitt Me 328 B Leichtes
Schnelkkampfflugzeug.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2014, 05:50:19 am »
Hi,


here is the Messerschmitt Me.261 V.1 and V.2 drawings.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #69 on: April 26, 2014, 08:00:50 am »
Hi,


here is a drawing to Bf.109 with DB 628 engine,and a wings to different Bf.109
variants.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2014, 04:29:06 am »
From Flugzeuge Classic 9/2012,

here is the Messerschmitt Bf.109 H-2 & H-3 projects.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2014, 08:01:36 am »
The words "colour profile" and "project" generally can only mean "highly speculative", but as
we already have several such cases, I thought this one better placed here, than in a new
thread in another section.  ;)
We had the Bf 165 here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17113.msg28603.html#msg28603
and in some following posts. I just wanted to do a German pre-war paint scheme and
thought it to be a suitable object.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2014, 10:16:31 am »
Splendid, Jemiba, thanks for sharing!

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #73 on: December 09, 2014, 11:00:35 am »
Nice job Jens. :)

"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"

Offline lark

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2014, 12:20:56 pm »
Formidable..!

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2014, 01:25:37 pm »
Amazing my dear Jemiba.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2014, 02:51:37 pm »
Well done, Jens!

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #77 on: January 21, 2015, 04:36:38 am »
Hi,


here is a drawings to some Messerschmitt P.1079 Project.


http://users.telenet.be/denzjos/pulsejets/pulsejets.html

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Messerschmitt Me 261 and Me 309 cutaway
« Reply #78 on: February 13, 2015, 09:11:45 am »
Hope all like found by ascendent.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #79 on: March 10, 2015, 12:05:07 pm »
I accidentally found the Wiki article about the Bf 165, containing a photo
of the Bf 165 mock-up ! Or at least, it is said to be one. Quality is low and
it looks, as it has been somehow doctored. But perhaps, someone knows,
where it comes from, as the source isn't mentioned. Or can say for sure,that
it is just a fake.

(photo via  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_165 )
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 12:22:27 pm by Jemiba »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #80 on: March 10, 2015, 02:11:35 pm »
Great find my dear Jemiba.

Offline CiTrus90

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2015, 03:16:14 pm »
Unfortunately, that photo is a fake. Here is the unaltered one (Henschel Hs 127):



Regards.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 03:18:01 pm by CiTrus90 »
Regards.

L. Landino

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #82 on: March 10, 2015, 03:22:22 pm »
Correct. The plane is often labelled on several
websites as the Messerschmitt 'Banana Bomber'
and they used sometimes the 3 view once made by Jemiba
with it ...

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #83 on: March 10, 2015, 10:16:09 pm »
Thank you for identifying the source of that "photo", looked somehow familiar
to me, but I didn't get, what it was.
Just a suspicion, but the "artist" may be a former member of the SPF ? I found his
name on one of the sites mentioned by lark ...  ::)
Is it worth pointing Wikipedia to that fake ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #84 on: March 29, 2015, 09:58:11 am »
Hi,


the original Messerschmitt or BFW Bf.164 (P.1053) was a long-range aircraft project as I heard,has
anyone a drawing or more info about it ?.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #85 on: March 29, 2015, 10:19:00 am »
From Ebert/Kaiser/Peters "Willy Messerschmitt. Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues":
Intended for a flight around the world, the Bf 164 was ordered by the RLM in 1935, but
cancelled around 1937. No data seem to have survived, the order and the designation
could only be found in some RLM lists. Perhaps some design points were used
later for the Me 261 and 264, but maybe it contained elements of the M 34, too.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #86 on: July 09, 2015, 06:02:58 am »

here is a Model for Messerschmitt Bf or Me.109Z aircraft,it was a well known,but
fitted with external big cannon,mounted between the two fuselage in the middle
connected section and below it,is it a real project ?.

Flugzeug Classic 1/2006


My dear Jemiba,


it seemed to be that,the Messerschmitt Bf.109Z was a real project,here is a more info
about it from the book; Secret Nazi Aircraft 1939 -1945 Luftwaffe's Advanced Aircraft Projects

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #87 on: July 12, 2015, 05:04:17 am »
From the book; Die Deutsche Luftruestung 1933-1945 - Vol.3 - Henschel-Messerschmitt (Bernard&Graefe)


the Messerschmitt Bf.109Z was a real design,and there is two versions,Z-1 & Z-2.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #88 on: July 17, 2015, 02:13:33 am »
Technically a DB project, but does anyone have information on the planned fitting of a Merlin engine to a 109 which was contemporary with the messerspitt.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #89 on: October 13, 2015, 05:26:01 am »
Hi,


here is a two drawings to Messerschmitt P.1085 and P.1075,but in the left drawing (P.10850
there is an improvement to the tail unit,I don't know if it was a version of it or what ?.


неизвестный мессершмитт

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2015, 12:37:20 pm »
Dipping in to my old files again...
"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"

Offline blackkite

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #91 on: January 26, 2016, 11:08:17 pm »
Hi Me509. Midship engine same as recent racing car!! Me509 looks like Keiun.
Radiator concept is same as Me309.
Me509 is good design except heavy weight long propeller shaft. So...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_509

« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 07:54:06 pm by blackkite »

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #92 on: January 27, 2016, 06:58:07 pm »
Hi!
Source : Internet
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 07:04:55 pm by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2016, 07:13:07 pm »
Me310 high altitude fighter/ bomber
A single aircraft was built by converting a Me 210. It had a pressurised cockpit and was powered by two 1,380 kW (1,850 hp) Daimler-Benz DB 603A inline engines.
The Me 310 first flew on 11 September 1943, but the project was cancelled later the same year, as it showed hardly any aerodynamic improvement over the Me 210. A subsequent prototype, the Me 410 showed sufficient improvement in its aerodynamics to be put into production.
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/me310.html
"At the beginning of summer of 1942 of the designer Messershmitta from Augsburg started development at once two projects of the hunters, capable to replace loser Me.210. Both projects got support of the ministry of aircraft and designation of Me.310 and Me.410. They were close on a design, and for their production it was possible to use the most part of equipment of the predecessor. Though both planes were similar, the first intended for actions first of all at big heights and respectively received a wing of bigger scope without automatic predkrylok and germokabinu.
As a prototype of Me.310 remade Me.210A-1 (#179 VN+AQ), equipped with a new tail part on a sample "as Me.210-V17 and a wing bigger on 0,65 m of scope without predkrylok served. The plane in a new look was for the first time obletan in September, 1943. As production versions the Me.310a-1 projects (Schnellbomber - a high-speed bomber) and Me.310A-2 (Zerstoerer - the hunter) were offered.
Both types should be equipped with the 1750 l DB 603А engines.page. at the earth, 1850 l.page. at the height of 2100 m and 1625 l.page. at the height of 5700 m. Planes were armed with two 7,92-mm machine guns of MG 17 and two 20-mm guns of MG 151 which have been rigidly mounted in a forward part of a fuselage, and also two 13-mm machine guns of MG 131 placed on boards in remotely operated tourist's fir-trees. On an internal suspension bracket the Me-310 plane could bear 1000 kg of bombs. As Me-310 differed from Me-410 only a little increased scope of a wing and a tight cabin, at the end of 1943 of Tecbnisches Amt ordered to curtail further works on this plane, having concentrated all efforts on operational development of Me-410."
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 07:23:20 pm by blackkite »

Offline sienar

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2016, 07:17:01 pm »
Didn't a good number of the lippisch designs occur without the knowledge of Willy himself?

And when some of these designs ended up in competition with his own he was furious?

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #95 on: January 28, 2016, 04:42:38 am »
Hi Me509. Midship engine same as recent racing car!! Me509 looks like Keiun.

As soon as I saw the images and before I read your saying it looks like the R2Y1 Keiun, I had the same thought exactly! A true example of the saying "form follows function".
Frank

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #96 on: January 28, 2016, 04:12:16 pm »
Hi Me509. Midship engine same as recent racing car!! Me509 looks like Keiun.

As soon as I saw the images and before I read your saying it looks like the R2Y1 Keiun, I had the same thought exactly! A true example of the saying "form follows function".
Yes I think so. I also think that.....
Messerschmitt tried to develop Me509 fighter may be because Messerschmitt was estimating an achievement in the actual fighting of bell P-39 and P-63.
Specifications (as designed)
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 9.94 m (32 ft 7 in)
Wingspan: 11.27 m (37 ft)
Height: 3.98 m (13 ft 1 in)
Powerplant: 1 × Daimler-Benz DB 605B, 1,085 kW (1,455 hp)
Performance
Maximum speed: 760 km/h (472 mph)
Armament
Guns: 2 × 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 machine guns
2 × 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons

High speed fighter with pressurized cockpit!!
Perhaps Messerschmitt thought that this nose wheel landing system might be works well because of light nose weight.
Rerturn match of Me309 failure. ;D Some document says that Me509 was a delivative of Me309.
I feel that Me509's engine, propeller,radiator, spinner, wing, horizontal tail stabilizer and landing gear were almost same as Me309's one.
Any original drawing or document survived still now?

http://www.hyperscale.com/2013/galleries/me50948rs_1.htm
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 01:03:28 am by blackkite »

Offline Avimimus

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #97 on: January 28, 2016, 08:07:07 pm »
I wonder if the Me-509 would have the same CG issues as the P-39 (and the Yak-9B for that matter).

Hi!
Source : Internet

So, this jet powered Me-410?

My suspicion is that the original drawing showed alternative configurations with either one engine or two engines - then someone redrew it with all three engines depicted.

That said - anyone know the what or whys of this? Increased climb rate? Engine testbed?

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #98 on: January 29, 2016, 02:32:08 am »
Me-109 TL

Offline blackkite

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #99 on: January 29, 2016, 04:56:18 am »
Wiki says that...
"It was first proposed on 22 January 1943 at an RLM conference; at the time only three prototypes of the Me 262 had been completed. The Bf 109TL would be a backup if the Me 262 did not come to production or as a second fighter to operate alongside the Me 262.

In order to reduce development time, various components from previous aircraft were to be used. The fuselage was to come from the Bf 109H/BV 155B high-altitude fighter (with a new nose and tail section), the wing was from the Me 409 project and the tricycle undercarriage came from the Me 309. The powerplant would be the same Junkers Jumo 004B-1 turbojet (900 kgf thrust) or BMW 003A (800 kgf).

The basic armament was to be two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons (with 120 rpg) and two MK 103 cannons mounted in the nose. An additional proposal was two 30 mm (1.18 in) MK 108 cannons to be installed in the wing roots. The pilot cockpit used in the prototypes was the same as utilized in the Bf 109E/G types.

The performance was estimated to be possibly better than the Me 262 due to the Bf 109TL's narrower fuselage, a product of the design for a high-speed high-altitude fighter. The Bf 109TL received intensive research. By March 1943, it was decided that many other modifications to components would be needed and the project was abandoned in order to concentrate on the Me 262 project."
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 04:24:30 am by blackkite »

Offline Vladimir

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #100 on: January 30, 2016, 02:42:59 am »
Yep, cool one

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #101 on: January 30, 2016, 04:06:24 pm »
The Bf110H was a proposed follow-on to the Bf110G. Given the lengthy gestation and many shortcomings of the Me210/Me410, production of the older aircraft had gone on longer than anticipated. So improvements seemed worthwhile.

I have attached my drawing of the Bf110H-5, a proposed high-altitude, single-seat destroyer. It would have combined the extended, rounded wing tips of the B-series machines with stronger wing spars, DB605D/E engines, and GM-1 nitrous-oxide injection. A large nitrous-oxide tank would have replaced rear crew positions. Armament consisted of the usual two MK108 30x90-mm guns in the nose plus a single, 30x184-mm MK103 cannon, which I have drawn in an under-fuselage gondola. The 37x263-mm BK3.7 gun was also considered for this variant.

The Bf110H-2 was an otherwise similar two-seat high-altitude fighter-bomber. The Bf110H-4 was a three-seat seat high-altitude night fighter with a new type of Ebersbacher flame dampers fitted to the engines.

The Bf110H-6 was also a three-seat night fighter but abandoned the extended wingtips and the GM-1 in favor of MW-50 methanol/water injection for higher performance below the rated altitude of the engine. Extra armor was to be fitted in the pilot's cockpit.

The H-series variants never went into production. The extended wing tips and strengthend structure were abandoned first, so that engineers could concentrate on adapting the airframe for the DB605D/E and the DB605D/E for MW-50. But it was soon realized that the DB605D/E's larger supercharger would require new engine mounts and changes to the nacelle design. Since such changes would have disrupted production of the Bf110G, the H model was abandoned.

Source: Messerschmitt Bf110/Me210/Me410: an Illustrated History, by Heinz Mankau and Peter Patrick (Schiffer, 2003).

Offline blackkite

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #102 on: January 30, 2016, 06:19:05 pm »
Oh single seat Bf110! :o Thanks for sharing us a impressive drawing. I look forward your new work. :D
If she has a small canopy for single seat, it must be exciting shape, too.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 06:21:38 pm by blackkite »

Offline iverson

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #103 on: January 30, 2016, 07:37:37 pm »
Oh single seat Bf110! :o Thanks for sharing us a impressive drawing. I look forward your new work. :D
If she has a small canopy for single seat, it must be exciting shape, too.

I agree that a different canopy would be interesting--perhaps the 109's Galland hood with a fairing. But, in fact, the single-seat variant is the one shown in my drawing. The canopy is the same as for the Bf110G. If you look closely, you will see that I have drawn what I think the GM-1 tank would have looked like in what would otherwise be the rear gunner's position (the shape of the tank--based on one proposed for the Me410--and its position are no more than a guess on my part). I suspect that any advantages that a new canopy might have provided would have been offset by the production problems that the change would have caused.

Offline blackkite

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #104 on: January 30, 2016, 07:52:14 pm »
Yes you are absolutely right. ;)

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #105 on: February 02, 2016, 08:21:29 am »
Robert,

wonderful info on the 110 H! I don't spend any time researching German ac anymore so it is great to see these gems popping up.

I'm sure you are quite correct about not wanting to slow production in order to change the canopy. Even in cases where the changes in performance were quite dramatic toward the positive it could take literally years before the change was instituted. The perfect example of that is the single tail for the B-24 which I describe in some detail in my book "Consolidated Mess". Though the tests performed in 1943 on the single tail were overwhelmingly positive in terms of stability, handling, speed, drag, etc., and communications from Europe commands began to come in to DC and Wright Field almost immediately asking when they could expect new single-tail B-24s, it wasn't until the B-24N that the USAAF would have received this mod. The Navy, of course, got single-tail stretch B-24s in the form of the PB4Y-2. The long logistics trail of finding manufacturers to produce all the component parts for a new tail assembly and building up a backlog of parts to enhance manufacturing of the finished aircraft, plus the potential impact on the delivery of parts for the existing design, make it clear why this change didn't take place earlier.

Once again, nice research and drawings, Robert!

AlanG

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #106 on: February 04, 2016, 11:23:12 pm »
Hi!
Me109/209/p.1091 stufe Ⅱ with DB628 engine.
DB628 had two stage supercharger. Low presssure(the first stage) supercharger was located behind the propeller and high pressure(the second stage) supercharger was located rear side of the engine. You can see a aftercooler rear bottom of the engine.
Also you can see the cover for piping between Low pressure supercharger and high pressure supercharger in these aircraft side view drawing.
Last drawing shows low pressure supercharger drive mechanism patent drawing.
Development of DB628 engine was cancelled.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 05:34:46 am by blackkite »

Offline Grzesio

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #107 on: February 05, 2016, 03:38:55 am »
It should be just noticed, the scale plans are marked as "reconstruction,  suppositious look".

Offline blackkite

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #108 on: February 05, 2016, 05:28:54 am »
It should be just noticed, the scale plans are marked as "reconstruction,  suppositious look".
HmHm...
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 05:43:32 am by blackkite »

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #109 on: February 05, 2016, 08:23:29 am »
me155bwdb628.jpg is Justo Miranda drawing from Monogram Close-up 20  ;)

Offline blackkite

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #110 on: February 05, 2016, 03:27:05 pm »
me155bwdb628.jpg is Justo Miranda drawing from Monogram Close-up 20  ;)
Great and exciting drawing as usual!!! :D
Justo-san, how do you think about this very surprising and interesting DB624 engine?
I imagine that Daimler Benz must be appealed this engine for Messerschmitt high altitude fighter or high altitude recon/bomber.
This engine had mechanical drive(Valkan coupling drive?) superchargers at both side of the engine as the first and the second stage supercharger, and also had turbo charger as the third stage supercharger at the bottom of the engine.
Intercoolers were located exit of the first stage supercharger and exit of the second stage supercharger.
Unbelievable layout. :o B)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 03:46:53 pm by blackkite »

Offline Vladimir

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #111 on: February 06, 2016, 05:47:14 am »
Hi, the experimental Bf. 109 with V-tail:

Offline Vladimir

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #112 on: February 06, 2016, 06:35:16 am »
Did any one have info about Messerschmitt P.1079/2 . Absolutely uncknown for me...
from here:http://www.unicraft.biz

Online Johnbr

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #113 on: February 06, 2016, 07:37:22 am »
Me I love the Db-624 engine.

Offline Zizi6785

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #114 on: February 06, 2016, 08:06:24 am »
from the wowp

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #115 on: February 06, 2016, 09:47:26 am »
me155bwdb628.jpg is Justo Miranda drawing from Monogram Close-up 20  ;)
Great and exciting drawing as usual!!! :D
Justo-san, how do you think about this very surprising and interesting DB624 engine?
I imagine that Daimler Benz must be appealed this engine for Messerschmitt high altitude fighter or high altitude recon/bomber.
This engine had mechanical drive(Valkan coupling drive?) superchargers at both side of the engine as the first and the second stage supercharger, and also had turbo charger as the third stage supercharger at the bottom of the engine.
Intercoolers were located exit of the first stage supercharger and exit of the second stage supercharger.
Unbelievable layout. :o B)



The information on the DB 624 is very rare. In my opinion, this engine was designed to power the Henschel Hs 130 D

Offline blackkite

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #116 on: February 06, 2016, 02:42:47 pm »
Thanks a lot. Super!! :o

Wiki says that
"Further development of the Hs 130 as a reconnaissance aircraft continued with the Hs 130D, which was planned to have DB 605 engines and a complex two-stage supercharger, but was again unbuilt."

DB624 had very complex three stage supercharger. Wiki for Hs130 need some modification...?

Hs 130
http://www.zona-militar.com/foros/threads/henschel-hs-130.20247/
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 02:52:20 pm by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #117 on: March 02, 2016, 05:16:54 am »
Hi! Me410 video.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #118 on: March 29, 2016, 08:38:29 am »
From Klassiker der Luftfahrt 2012-07

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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: WWII Experimental German Aircraft Drawings
« Reply #120 on: April 26, 2016, 01:43:15 pm »
Interesting. I've put in my bid!
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Re: WWII Experimental German Aircraft Drawings
« Reply #121 on: April 26, 2016, 02:08:50 pm »
Nice find Rap,

and what was them ?,I see P-20 on one drawing ?.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: WWII Experimental German Aircraft Drawings
« Reply #122 on: May 02, 2016, 02:44:33 pm »
Interesting. I've put in my bid!
All four sets?  I'm watching these but I won't actively bid against you.  His most recent set of Me262 wind tunnel data didn't particularly thrill me.

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Re: WWII Experimental German Aircraft Drawings
« Reply #123 on: May 02, 2016, 05:10:11 pm »
Interesting. I've put in my bid!
All four sets?  I'm watching these but I won't actively bid against you. 

Two sets... grp2 and grp3. My initial bids are as high as I'm going to go, and I'll be on the road when the auctions end. Feel free to jump on them yourself if you wish.
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Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #124 on: June 10, 2016, 12:49:46 pm »
Rail-launched Me 163 experiments...



There were apparently plans to create Me 163-carrying trains that could travel around Germany and launch them from straight sections of standard gauge railway track - sort of mobile response units. Anyone ever read that anywhere in a book? I can't tell whether it's new/interesting or not.
“This modular concept we have called MUSTARD (Multi Unit Space Transport and Recovery Device), and has been the subject of considerable detailed work.” Tom Smith, BAC Preston

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #125 on: June 10, 2016, 03:19:24 pm »
Good video.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #126 on: June 11, 2016, 06:49:16 am »
Very
... I can't tell whether it's new/interesting or not.

It's very interesting indeed, many thanks for posting it !
At first glanece, I had the feeling, that it was a subscale model, but that was confuted
by a rough comparison of gauge and span. It may have been a full wooden scale mock-up,
of obviously quite weak construction, as during the first shown failure probably just the
aerodnamical forces seem to have ripped off the wings.
Using railway tracks as runways really may have eased stowage and the first part of a
combat sortie, but not really the second (landing).
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #127 on: June 11, 2016, 07:44:10 am »
for modellers

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #128 on: June 11, 2016, 07:47:15 am »
 sources

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #129 on: June 11, 2016, 11:12:14 am »
Thanks Justo - do those sources detail the train that was going to carry the Me 163s, fuel load, pilot and crew accommodation, operating procedures, why the project failed etc. as well?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 11:14:48 am by newsdeskdan »
“This modular concept we have called MUSTARD (Multi Unit Space Transport and Recovery Device), and has been the subject of considerable detailed work.” Tom Smith, BAC Preston

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #130 on: June 11, 2016, 11:59:51 am »
Sorry, drawings only  :-\

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #131 on: June 11, 2016, 01:06:09 pm »
Ah, I should probably write up what I've discovered at some point then!
“This modular concept we have called MUSTARD (Multi Unit Space Transport and Recovery Device), and has been the subject of considerable detailed work.” Tom Smith, BAC Preston

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #132 on: June 11, 2016, 01:29:20 pm »
I will be delighted to learn a bit more about the subject.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #133 on: June 13, 2016, 08:31:41 am »
Img 129 appears to show an Me 264 bomber on the rocket sled.

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #134 on: June 13, 2016, 01:48:08 pm »
Img 129 appears to show an Me 264 bomber on the rocket sled.

It does, doesn't it! Well, in a report (dated May 12, 1942) on the aircraft designs tendered for the long-range aircraft requirement of mid-1941, Generalleutnant Eccard, Freiherr von Gablenz wrote:

"On the outbreak of war with the United States, the idea of operating against America directly without refuelling was naturally pursued as it had been previously. The first theoretical solution was proposed by Messerschmitt in the autumn of 1941 with the following design: Me 264 six-engined variant: All-up weight 70-80 tonnes, six DB 603 engines, range 15,000km, payload five tonnes, approximately four tonnes armament and armour.
The solution was theoretical because of the firm’s under-capacity. Mention must be made of the special characteristics associated with these trans-oceanic aircraft and their performance. They require long runways (on average a 2km run before take-off). On grounds of weight only about two-thirds of the fuel tanks can be protected.
The aircraft are fitted with landing gear: a jettisonable undercarriage is provided for take-off. Tactically, problems of stability and lack of manoeuvrability rule out dive-bombing. For nuisance raids against American land targets, night bombing will be in the horizontal attitude. In operations over the sea, the size of the aircraft is particularly disadvantageous."

If a long take-off run was required, along with a jettisonable undercarriage, using a rocket sled instead would certainly be one alternative. It should be mentioned that the 'these trans-oceanic aircraft' refers to all the competition entrants, not just the Me 264 - including an unknown six-engined Heinkel bomber design, the six-engined Focke-Wulf Fernkampfflugzeug (not the Ta 400) and the Ju 390.
“This modular concept we have called MUSTARD (Multi Unit Space Transport and Recovery Device), and has been the subject of considerable detailed work.” Tom Smith, BAC Preston

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« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 02:46:00 pm by blackkite »

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #136 on: September 11, 2016, 08:47:13 am »
Also from my files;

the Messerschmitt P.1110 had a version with T-tail.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #137 on: September 22, 2016, 01:13:39 pm »
In my files,

the Messerschmitt Me.163B had a six variants.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #138 on: September 23, 2016, 08:30:34 am »
In my files,

and after the Messerschmitt Me.263 appeared,it followed by anther two unknown rocket fighter design Projects (homeland defenders),all cancelled in early 1945,due to focus on production Me.262 & He.162.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 02:34:01 pm by hesham »

Offline moin1900

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #139 on: October 09, 2016, 07:56:30 am »
Hi

More infos about the Me-163 "STARTZUG" train.
A complete train :  a locomotive, tankcars, flatcars, aircraft transport cars, workshop cars, storage cars, cars for takeoff, sleeping cars and admistrative cars.
The train should use the tracks of the Reichsbahn.
Each train should carry six Me-163.
The idea was from Hans Antz.

Source
https://books.google.com/
SNIPPET VIEW
Top secret bird: the Luftwaffe's Me-163 COMET by Wolfgang Späte

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #140 on: October 28, 2016, 08:42:55 am »
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 08:44:57 am by hesham »

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #141 on: October 28, 2016, 11:17:23 am »
The description ("coated with a breathable material", "would have let air into the airframe even without a dedicated
intake trunk"), to my opinon places it in the category "fiction".
And the sources seem to be very vague indeed.  ::)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #142 on: October 28, 2016, 02:20:02 pm »
The description ("coated with a breathable material", "would have let air into the airframe even without a dedicated
intake trunk"), to my opinon places it in the category "fiction".
And the sources seem to be very vague indeed.  ::)

OK my dear Jemiba,I agree with you it's fake;

but we must know that,the Me.271 was (Blitz Zerstorer) or a ramjet fighter Project,so maybe
this design was close to its shape,but it is not it.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #143 on: October 29, 2016, 08:14:49 am »
Anther Mystery;

the Messerschmitt Me.565 Vulkan was a jet torpedo bomber Project;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aircraft_of_Germany_by_manufacturer

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #144 on: October 30, 2016, 02:18:00 am »
There's a mention in wikipedia without any source and a handful of sites, that mirror
exactly that "information".
So, I would say "Allegedly there was a project for a jet torpedo bomber with the designation Me 565,
but so far not a single evidence is known"
IF there really was such a project, it probably was in an early design stage and then the allocation
of a name ("Vulkan") is highly improbably, to my opinion.
So, again, please be VERY careful with statements like "The XXX was a ... project" . That's exactly the
way "projects" like the Klagenfurt 225 and others were generated and kept alive by repeating such
nonsense again and again.   ::)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #145 on: October 30, 2016, 06:10:28 am »
My dear Jemiba,

in this section of Wikipedia,no fake aircraft was mentioned,and of course they have a
source for that,we can ask them,from where you get this,and as you see some of those
sources we don't have.

There was some of little known Germany aircraft,we still ignore,such as a Junkers
VTOL fighter Project.


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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #146 on: October 30, 2016, 07:01:43 am »
Nothing against wikipedia, very good for writing school homeworks and so on .
And yes, the one (!), who wrote that article, probably found the "Me 565" somewhere.
But it isn't mentioned and all the other mentions on the internet seem to go round
in circles. NO source is mentioned anywhere ! The designation "Me 565" would have been
assigned by the RLM and we have a thread about those designations here, too. But still
yet, I've found no mention of that number. Of course, there are gaps, but it's not useful
anyway to "fill" them with unproven data.
"We can ask them. ..."
Yes please, and I would strongly recommend for the next time to ask them BEFORE stating,
that there was such a project. And if you'll get an answer about the original source, you should
check, if it is plausible and reliable one.
And no, we don't "ignore little known German aircraft", but, as said often enough before, especially
this theme is full of misinterpretations, errors, fakes and probably even  of deliberate misinformation
by sources, which may appear as absolutely reliable and doubtless at first glance (designers/constructors,
who tried to hoke their life career, probably ). And many of us are busy in other fields, so not able to check
such hasty reactions. And then, others searching for the "Me 565" get a hit list including the SPF, hopefully
still regarded as a trustable source ... Reading this posts here already may appear too much for, say, someone
who looks for suitable types for the next Resin kit.
Perhaps you should compare mentions of such unknown types with anonymous letters to the Egyptian tax office,
saying that you sold 500 cars during the last year. Would you really be accepting a tax bill based on such a letter ?  ;)

It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #147 on: October 30, 2016, 08:28:26 am »
OK my dear Jemiba,

until we get reliable sources.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #148 on: December 04, 2016, 04:40:05 am »
Here is a Messerschmitt P.1103 7 P.1104 in details.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #149 on: December 04, 2016, 01:01:35 pm »
Here is a Messerschmitt P.1103 7 P.1104 in details.

The source;

Waffen-Arsenal 118 - Bachem Ba 349 Natter

Offline redstar72

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #150 on: December 08, 2016, 11:16:40 am »
Also a strange thing,

the Messerschmitt Me.271 ?,was it a real one ?.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Messerschmitt-Me-271-bz-V8-1943-1-72-Bird-Models-Resinbausatz-resin-kit-/252414484613

Here is the source for "Me 271bz Blitz-Zerstorer":
http://roswell.greyfalcon.us/Me271bz.html  :)

But the model from your link doesn't look like this anyway; rather it looks like normal aircraft, fully plausible, with normal turbojets and normal air intakes. Moreover, it looks much like some real Lippisch projects of P.09, P.10 or P.11 series. Probably the model represents one of these real projects, but under fictitious designation?
Best regards,
Alexander

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #151 on: December 08, 2016, 01:06:56 pm »
OK my dear Redstar.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #152 on: December 11, 2016, 04:41:58 am »
Hi,

here is a Messerschmitt Me.410 TL Project,P.1101 Variants (note a biplane and
M-wing),P.1109-02 and P.1110/170.

Jet Planes of the Third Reich - The Secret Projects-volume one

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #153 on: January 01, 2017, 07:48:50 am »
In my files,

during the BFW period,Mr. Willy Messerschmitt had many little known Projects,most of
them wasn't in "M" series,such as, a two seat trainer,who hear about it ?.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #154 on: January 02, 2017, 08:02:28 am »
In my files,

and during BFW period,Messerschmitt designed a postal airplane Project,maybe taken
the "P" designation,any idea ?.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #155 on: January 03, 2017, 07:03:01 am »
A big surprise also in my files,

and during BFW period (1930s),Messerschmitt designed an Amphibian Project,I guess
it was from early "P" series.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #156 on: January 03, 2017, 12:44:02 pm »
A big surprise also in my files,

and during BFW period (1930s),Messerschmitt designed an Amphibian Project,I guess
it was from early "P" series.

Pretty sure this has been posted elsewhere on this forum but I can't find it right now.

Its a very goofy looking design with treads for the main gear. A single mockup built. The design was not done by Willy Messerschmitt but another engineer at BFW.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #157 on: January 03, 2017, 01:09:56 pm »
A big surprise also in my files,

and during BFW period (1930s),Messerschmitt designed an Amphibian Project,I guess
it was from early "P" series.

Pretty sure this has been posted elsewhere on this forum but I can't find it right now.

Its a very goofy looking design with treads for the main gear. A single mockup built. The design was not done by Willy Messerschmitt but another engineer at BFW.

No,it was for the designer Messerschmitt.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #158 on: January 04, 2017, 07:33:13 am »
Also in my files,

he designed under BFW period,a heavy transport airplane Project,maybe it
was taken the "P" designation ?.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #159 on: January 04, 2017, 11:03:20 am »
Messerschmitt P 1079/5.
“This modular concept we have called MUSTARD (Multi Unit Space Transport and Recovery Device), and has been the subject of considerable detailed work.” Tom Smith, BAC Preston

Offline Wurger

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #160 on: January 04, 2017, 11:41:13 am »
One or two "Schmidt röhre"?

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #161 on: January 04, 2017, 12:46:05 pm »
One or two "Schmidt röhre"?

Two. Incidentally, the report refers to the designs throughout as P 79. There are 17 designs in total, though there must have been a few more since one or two have an 'a', 'b' or 'c' after the number. So P 79/10c for example. There isn't a P 79/51 - that seems to have just been a mistake. What's usually given as P 1079/51 is actually just P 79/17, the last one.
“This modular concept we have called MUSTARD (Multi Unit Space Transport and Recovery Device), and has been the subject of considerable detailed work.” Tom Smith, BAC Preston

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #162 on: January 05, 2017, 04:49:11 am »
he designed under BFW period,a heavy transport airplane Project,maybe it
was taken the "P" designation ?.

Nice find my dear Dan,

and also in my files; Messerschmitt designed anther heavy transport airplane Project,
powered by two BMW Hornet engines,maybe it was taken a "P" designation ?.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #163 on: January 06, 2017, 05:01:24 am »
Also in my files,

also during BFW period,Messerschmitt designed a high-speed postal airplane Project,
intended for Canada ?.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #164 on: January 07, 2017, 07:39:40 am »
In my files,

also during BFW period,Messerschmitt designed a record breaker airplane Project,
it was not related to M-34 ?.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #165 on: January 08, 2017, 09:28:36 am »
In my files,

and for Messerschmitt "M" Projects,there was a three engined version
of M-18d.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #166 on: January 09, 2017, 07:12:54 am »
Also in my files,

and under "M" designation,there was a Project for M-24,but fitted with
three engines ?.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #167 on: January 11, 2017, 07:16:13 am »
Anther Mystery,

and also under the "M" designation,there was a variant from M-20 with
three motors as a Project ?.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #168 on: January 13, 2017, 04:21:45 am »
Also in my files,

and under "M" designation,there was a Project for M-24,but fitted with
three engines ?.

There was also anther Project to M-24 with a three engines,but those motors
identified as Argus AS-10.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #169 on: January 14, 2017, 04:53:28 am »
Also in my files,

Messerschmitt M-20 had a variant powered by four engines as a Project ?.

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #170 on: January 15, 2017, 07:41:13 am »
Also in my files,

There was a Project from M-28,but it was not as a mailplane,it was a transport aircraft ?.