Northrop/Vought VTXTS Jet Trainer projects and derivatives

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elmayerle

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JAZZ said:
Considering Northrop was providing technical assistance to Taiwan at the time, it's not a surprise that Taiwan's AT-3 bears considerably resemblance to Northrop's VTX entry.
Click to expand...
 
Last week's visit to the Vought Archives netted these two artist's impressions - any idea of a V number for this one?

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Its the Northrop/Vought VTX, perhaps it didn't have a V- series number? Braybrook suggests Northrop wanted to submit a navalised F-5F but it was a non-starter.

The McDonnell-Douglas native VTX design was D-7000, the Rockwell VTX design (the new one, not the T-2 update) was NA 424.

Source: Roy Braybrook, Hawk, Osprey 1984.
 
In archiving the original photos last night, I realized that the photos/artwork are of two different designs. Something else to add to the mix....

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 
Maybe it's just me Mark, but the first Vought design looks like it has some CASA C-101 heritage.

There are differences in the nose, the rudder doesn't appear to occupy the entire trailing edge of the fin, and of course the Aviojet only has one engine. But even with those I'd argue you could confuse the two aircraft.
 
you know, the image 'xUntitled8' looks a lot like the MIG-AT, posted here...

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5857.msg47373.html#msg47373

cheers,
Robin.
 
A more appropriate comparison is with the Northrop/AIDC AT-3.

http://www.taiwanairpower.org/af/at3.html
 

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Nice catch Overscan - matches up very well.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 
Greetings All -

Just back from a very successful trip to Vought. Plenty of stuff to scan and colate so I'll be sharing some goodies for months to come. A quick and easy post are these two images of the Vought/Northrop VTX proposal for your perusal and viewing pleasure.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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A beauty!!! Thank you so much for sharing. Can't wait to see what you have in store for us! ;D
 
Very similar to the Northrop / AIDC AT-3 overall, but substantially better visibility for the rear seat.
 
overscan said:
Very similar to the Northrop / AIDC AT-3 overall, but substantially better visibility for the rear seat.
Click to expand...

It would appear to be very nearly identical, although the engine nacelles of the AIDC trainer seem to be "area ruled" at the wing junction, which seems odd given the limited transonic performance of the type?
 
I've overlaid a 3 view and its just overall configuration the same, its different in all details.
 
Greetings All -

From the Vought Archives, drawings for the VTXTS V-532B proposal.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Northrop VTXTS wind tunnel model on display at the Western Museum of Flight, Torrance, CA.
 

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A couple of V-532 images from the Vought Heritage Collection.

bill
 

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V-532B: advanced trainer proposal for U.S. Navy's VTXTS competition (won by the T-45 Goshawk) (circa 1978).
 
Northrop VTX-TS
 

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Northrop had many contacts around the world from the F-5 A, B, C, D, E, and F foreign military sales. We were sometimes asked to help with indiginous aircraft projects. Walt Fellers helped CASA in Spain with the CASA 101 and was instrumental in adding the small wing root leading edge extensions, a Northrop trade mark. This design was done for Indonesia and bears a striking resemblance to the CASA design. It dates from 1983 - sorry no drawings.
 

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Lost cousins:


Taiwan AT-3 (very close but twin engines!)


index.php



Northrop/Vought VTX


index.php



CASA C-101
casa_c101_aviojet.jpg
 
BillRo, you have made my day! The insight you bring on some of Northrop's fighter projects of the 1980s in invaluable... Glad you are with us! Thanks.
 
Northrop/Vought VTXTS proposal of March 1981 included the N351


Here is a couple general arrangements of the N351


One in representative scheme and the other with lots of detail.


Source Vought Archives.


bill
 

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Inboard Profile of the same aircraft


Vought Archives.


bill
 

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Cool stuff, thanks. And of course, the connection with the Taiwanese AT-3 trainer (locally designed in theory but actually from Northrop) is all the more obvious...
 

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Northrop/Vought VTXTS
 

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Northrop/Vought VTXTS water tunnel model found on eBay.

Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Surplus-1-40-Scale-VTXTS-Proposal-Water-Tunnel-Model-/170922603103?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cbc7f25f

Seller's description:
One Aerospace company, in partnership with another aerospace company, had designed a new aircraft to fulfill the requirements of the U.S. Navy VTXTS program back in the 1980 timeframe. The VTXTS program consisted of both a new aircraft and a new training system, that would be used to replace the then current North American T-2 Buckeye. This effort was started in the late 1970s and lasted until shortly before the proposal was submitted. The proposal was then canceled before submission, and the program was later awarded to the McDonnell-Douglas T-45 Goshawk. I never learned why the proposal was withdrawn, but, it may have been because the company couldn't support this effort along with three other major programs going on at the same time, (ATA, ATB, and the ATF).The U.S. Navy may have also suggested that it couldn't afford an all new aircraft, and would instead, be looking for a derivative of an existing aircraft. The end result was exactly that, a derivative of the British Aerospace Hawk.

A tremendous amount of money was spent on the program, with analytical work, water tunnel and wind tunnel tests. However, every time there is a physical move of departments, engineers are told to throw out the old stuff to save room for their new habitat. Models, drawings, photos, and computer data, are subject to a possible discard, as they are considered useless for future work. On one move, I found this water tunnel model of the VTX in a desk drawer. I asked my manager if I could have it, and he said yes. It no longer had any value. It was apparently still being tested, as it had an unfinished fairing on the bottom of the forward fuselage. The resin model comes with the "sting" that the aircraft was mounted on while in the water tunnel. There are no fairings that would normally fit over the intakes to smooth out the flow. The sting attached at the top of the fuselage, so that the model was inverted in the water tunnel. The model is 12 inches long. It is made of both resin, and I assume, aluminum.

The model is still in the shape that I found it. I had thoughts of refinishing it and putting it on a stand, but decided to leave it as is. This auction includes the model, sting, unfinished nose fairing, drawings and slides showing the evolution of the design. Drawings include the inboard profile, section cuts, fold-out 3-views and view graphs.
Click to expand...
 

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Here is a picture of my 1/10 scale Northrup/Vought. They also did a 1/20th wind tunnel that us at the Museum of Flight at TOA and a 1/40th.
 

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Closer shot
 

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Great looking model and apparently a cool collection you've got... We need to see more! ;)
 
Topics merged/split. This thread now covers the Northrop VTX-TS proposals (N-350, N-351), the Vought VTXTS proposals (V-532) (both of which were closely linked), but also the Indonesian trainer and the Taiwanese AT-3, both direct derivatives of the VTX-TS design.
 
Some great finds here and in the other trainer topics, Paul. Thanks a lot for sharing.

Northrop N-350: Northrop Navy Trainer Configuration 350, VTX-TS (T-45) contender (with Vought) (October 1980)
Northrop N-351: Northrop Navy Trainer Configuration 351, VTX-TS (T-45) contender (with Vought) (August 1981)

Source: http://www.bihrle.com/bibliography.html
 
Hi,


the Northrop N350.


http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/Air_More%20Aircraft%20Blow%20In.htm
 

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