Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part II

overscan (PaulMM) · 20 April 2014

RadicalDisco said:
I'm wondering why the outboard edge of the LE flaps aren't planform aligned with the rest of the aircraft. In fact, it seems to make a 90 degree angle with the leading edge.

No idea. Most other canard deltas including J-10, Rafale, Typhoon, even Mirage 2000 have basically the same arrangement (Gripen is an exception). F-22 and F-35 extend the flap to the wingtip.

Radical · 20 April 2014

Also interesting is that the new flaps and aileron actuator fairings seem to be canted at the same angle as the wing LERX.

Any word on the status of the WS-15 engines? I recall there was some talk on Sino Defence Forums that 2011 is currently optimized for the AL-31s.

kaiserbill · 23 April 2014

LowObservable said:
Aluminum alloys can run reasonably well up to M=2.4 or so.

Indeed.
As far as I know, concorde used aluminium alloys and cruised at slighly over Mach 2 quite comfortably.

As far as I can recall, the cruising speed of the Tu-144 and Concorde were around the Mach 2 to Mach 2.3 mark because much faster speeds would have required the use of more exotic materials.

Not too sure where the Mach 1.8 sprang up from considering the thousands of hours of faster cruising those two aircraft attained.

Deino · 23 April 2014

Seems as if one engine was replaced (but IMO still an AL-31FN).

Deino

flateric · 23 April 2014

I doubt it. seems that either one engine has a problems (oh, didn't we see another fuel dumping recently) , or pilot is practicing one engine off landing ( often happens here at Zhukovsky)

totoro · 24 April 2014

if one engine was off or was giving siginificantly less thrust, one would expect the tail offset to be asymetric, and by quite a large margin as the plane is near the ground meaning its speed is pretty low. Yet the tails' offset appear the be symetrical.

sferrin · 24 April 2014

flateric said:
I doubt it. seems that either one engine has a problems (oh, didn't we see another fuel dumping recently) , or pilot is practicing one engine off landing ( often happens here at Zhukovsky)

Are we sure it was fuel dumping? Check post #723. Unless they're dumping unburned fuel out the nozzles it looks more like contrails. ???

flateric · 24 April 2014

totoro said:
if one engine was off or was giving siginificantly less thrust, one would expect the tail offset to be asymetric, and by quite a large margin as the plane is near the ground meaning its speed is pretty low. Yet the tails' offset appear the be symetrical.

O'rly? How much have you seen pics of one engine-off landings?

flateric · 24 April 2014

sferrin said:
flateric said:

I doubt it. seems that either one engine has a problems (oh, didn't we see another fuel dumping recently) , or pilot is practicing one engine off landing ( often happens here at Zhukovsky)

Click to expand...

Are we sure it was fuel dumping? Check post #723. Unless they're dumping unburned fuel out the nozzles it looks more like contrails. ???

AL-31 does fuel dump exactly that way...
And that's apparently not contrails
http://youtu.be/56FaaqJUhhc

totoro · 24 April 2014

Didn't really count 'em but it wasn't many, 3 or 4. Can't even tell often about rudder position, it's too hard to see from a distance. But I do remember reading about emergency rudder trim in such circumstances and pilots having to work the rudder manually as well. I am guessing there are differences in magnitude between this and that type of plane, depending on engine layout and tails layout, but i am wondering why would j-20 (or any fighter with similar engine layout) be an exception?

flateric · 24 April 2014

manual rudder trimming on FBW aircraft? come on...
you even can't tell from this photo the difference of controls angle on both sides

totoro · 24 April 2014

to sum it up, the assumption is that rudders *are* working there but offset is so small that can't be noticed?

flateric · 24 April 2014

not only rudders
once more, I'm trying to explain the strange nozzle position comparing to the facts I know

quellish · 24 April 2014

totoro said:
to sum it up, the assumption is that rudders *are* working there but offset is so small that can't be noticed?

J-20 is not a Cessna 152. The flight control systems of modern fighter aircraft (should) work as a cohesive whole. The pilot may provide *rudder pedal* input, but the resulting flight control actions may not have anything to do with the rudders themselves at all.
You should see what happens when you give a B-2 small rudder inputs in the COMBAT flight control mode.

Radical · 28 April 2014

Found these over at SinoDefenceForums. Interestingly, the second picture seems to be of 2001 or 2002, judging from the lack of clipping on the vertical stabilizers. Also there seems to be a gap between the canard and fuselage, though that may just be due to canard deflection.

Deino · 30 April 2014

Simply amazing ...

flateric · 1 May 2014

sferrin said:
Are we sure it was fuel dumping? Check post #723. Unless they're dumping unburned fuel out the nozzles it looks more like contrails. ???

fuel dump on AL-31F/Su-27

flateric · 1 May 2014

Deino · 1 May 2014

Quite interesting feature of the AL-31 ... which is - as far as I know - only shared by the WS-10 !

By the way do You know why the right engine is currently different to the left one ?? Is this a certain test, a malfunction or even a different version of the AL-31FN ... and even more since the J-10B is now known to use the uprated AL-31FN series III, is this engine also used by the J-20 ??

Deino

sferrin · 1 May 2014

Well they need to fire up the afterburners when they do that for the F-111 torch effect. ;D

FighterJock · 1 May 2014

sferrin said:
Well they need to fire up the afterburners when they do that for the F-111 torch effect. ;D

The mighty F-111 torch effect. I remember going to Leuchars airshow back in the 1990s and being impressed by the sight and indeed sound of the F-111 special trick, apparently it was the only aircraft that could do that sort of thing. Don't know if the J-20 will be able to do it or any other 5th generation aircraft.

GTX · 1 May 2014

FighterJock said:
apparently it was the only aircraft that could do that sort of thing.

Not necessarily...

Dragon029 · 1 May 2014

Gripen as well.

FighterJock · 6 May 2014

Thanks Guys, I did not know the Gripen could do the dump and burn trick as well.

Magoodotcom · 7 May 2014

A-5 Vigilante could do it as well

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/8518500911/

Dragon029 · 7 May 2014

GTX beat you to it (just above my post).

Magoodotcom · 8 May 2014

Ahh, GTX is a man ahead of his time!

Deino · 31 May 2014

Hey it now makes perfectly sense - and IMO even more than an IFR-testbed - why this Tu-204C was assigned to the CFTE !

http://v.ifeng.com/mil/mainland/2014005/01818124-577e-4fc1-b4fd-87bd0aecca27.shtml

Deino

PS - additional image added

malipa · 31 May 2014

Where did I see that before...

Deino · 31 May 2014

Yeppp ...

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Combat-Aircraft-Magazine/140704179286241?hc_location=timeline

The aircraft in question is a Tupolev Tu-204-120CE – cn. 1450743664030 powered by RR RB211-535E4B with serial B-2871 assigned to the China Flight Test Establishment (CFTE) ant Xi'an-Yanliang.
It was originally RA-64030 operated by the Tupolev Design Bureau (08-1999) … after that it was operated by “Air China Cargo” (27-10-2008) and following a long time in storage at Tianjin it was finally delivered to the CFTE in May 2011.
First rumours about a future use were ranging from an EW-conversion to a testbed to evaluate a new IFR-system but now we know its real purpose ....

GTX · 31 May 2014

Magoodotcom said:
Ahh, GTX is a man ahead of his time!

If only I could work out what time that was...

Deino · 17 June 2014

By the way J-20 2011 has been transferred to the CFTE Xi'an-Yanliang today ....

Deino · 14 July 2014

Following the transfer of prototype '2011' to the CFTE Xi'an-Yanliang today reportedly no. '2012' performed its first taxi-test.

Deino · 14 July 2014

....

Deino · 15 July 2014

Hmmmm ???

Deino · 15 July 2014

It's getting more and more mysterious ... either this is indeed the new '2012' but then it looks as if there's also another J-20 in the hangar behind. ???
Or it is a psed older image of '2011' with '2001 or '2002' behind (but as far as I remember when 2011 appeared both earlier birs were already at the CFTE!?)

Deino

Deino · 15 July 2014

Deino · 16 July 2014

Deino · 16 July 2014

a bit bigger but the question remains: are these faked ones from '2011' or is this the real deal ?! ??? ???

Deino · 16 July 2014

Deino said:
a bit bigger but the question remains: are these faked ones from '2011' or is this the real deal ?! ??? ???

At least the official CHinese news agency Xinhua reports on it:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2014-07/15/c_126755673.htm

Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part II

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