American Helicopter Society 2012

yasotay

yasotay

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Great week at Fort Worth for the rotorheads. Lots of interesting discussions and briefings. Of note Army is worried about money (duh) and a rather fiesty set of CEO of the major rotorcraft companies proclaimed that the civil market is going to become more impoortant than the military by the end of the decade. Eurocopter is bringing the X3 the the US ths summer if you did not already know. Anyway here are some interesting models seen at the show.
 

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A few more
 

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do you have more photos of the RAH-ish looking one
 
Cool. Any company name for 4th and 7th pictures?
 
these are Sikorsky X2 tech S-97 Raider and attack helicopter
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2768.0.html
 
ULOR Apache
 

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flateric said:
ULOR Apache
Click to expand...

That looks like a Rube Goldberg way to accomplish the same thing a rigid rotor does. Why not just increase the size of the wings a bit instead?
 

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What I'm interested in seeing is what Eurocopter plans do with the X3 Technology. i.e.- We've seen the demo vehicle now show us what you're thinking in terms of production vehicles. I would like to see if they have anything planned in the commuter class size range, sort of like a modern day Rotodyne.

Thanks for the pics Yasotay.
 
sferrin said:
flateric said:
ULOR Apache
Click to expand...

That looks like a Rube Goldberg way to accomplish the same thing a rigid rotor does. Why not just increase the size of the wings a bit instead?
Click to expand...

Apache does not have any wings. Weapons pylons are like a package of cement from aerodynamics point of view. If I remember it right, only Mi-24 has the ones, that actually produce some lift.
 
yep the one of Mi-24 are true wings as on Mi-6 too :D
 
sferrin said:
That looks like a Rube Goldberg way to accomplish the same thing a rigid rotor does. Why not just increase the size of the wings a bit instead?
Click to expand...

Because the pylons (or wings) below the rotor are directly in line with the downwash. Essentially the helicopter is pushing against itself.

Not saying that this wing above the rotors is a workable idea either...
 
Sundog said:
What I'm interested in seeing is what Eurocopter plans do with the X3 Technology. i.e.- We've seen the demo vehicle now show us what you're thinking in terms of production vehicles. I would like to see if they have anything planned in the commuter class size range, sort of like a modern day Rotodyne.
Click to expand...

I need to read up on the X3, but it always struck me as a desperation move by Eurocopter to kludge something together after Sikorsky made a splash with the X2. It looks like they just bolted some props onto a helicopter and called it revolutionary. And those props are not in a good location right next to the fuselage. So I agree with you that I'd like to see if they're going to actually do something with the technology.
 
blackstar said:
Sundog said:
What I'm interested in seeing is what Eurocopter plans do with the X3 Technology. i.e.- We've seen the demo vehicle now show us what you're thinking in terms of production vehicles. I would like to see if they have anything planned in the commuter class size range, sort of like a modern day Rotodyne.
Click to expand...

I need to read up on the X3, but it always struck me as a desperation move by Eurocopter to kludge something together after Sikorsky made a splash with the X2. It looks like they just bolted some props onto a helicopter and called it revolutionary. And those props are not in a good location right next to the fuselage. So I agree with you that I'd like to see if they're going to actually do something with the technology.
Click to expand...

I thought that as well... until I saw the thing fly. It is just great and flies nothing like a regular helo. Also it seems the two programs were developed at the same time (which makes the "desperation move" theory unlikely) and besides they involve very different technology. On a side note, "X3" is inappropriate since it's actually X3 and should be pronounced "X-cube"...
 
blackstar said:
Sundog said:
What I'm interested in seeing is what Eurocopter plans do with the X3 Technology. i.e.- We've seen the demo vehicle now show us what you're thinking in terms of production vehicles. I would like to see if they have anything planned in the commuter class size range, sort of like a modern day Rotodyne.
Click to expand...

I need to read up on the X3, but it always struck me as a desperation move by Eurocopter to kludge something together after Sikorsky made a splash with the X2. It looks like they just bolted some props onto a helicopter and called it revolutionary. And those props are not in a good location right next to the fuselage. So I agree with you that I'd like to see if they're going to actually do something with the technology.
Click to expand...

To a certain extent they did just bolt those on to the fuselage; It's a technology demonstrator. This idea has been around for some time, they just decided given the current state of technology this would be the best solution for the future. I think both the X2 and the X3 will be successful programs. At least that's my hope, anyway. I'm hoping that maybe they'll demonstrate the X3 at some airshows here so I can see it fly. The last actual demonstrator I saw fly was the XV-15 and it was amazing.
 
I love the X2 attack helicopter. It looks like a "son of Cheyenne".


@Stargazer:


Could you elaborate a bit more on what makes the 'Cube' so special?
 
Sundog said:
blackstar said:
Sundog said:
What I'm interested in seeing is what Eurocopter plans do with the X3 Technology. i.e.- We've seen the demo vehicle now show us what you're thinking in terms of production vehicles. I would like to see if they have anything planned in the commuter class size range, sort of like a modern day Rotodyne.
Click to expand...

I need to read up on the X3, but it always struck me as a desperation move by Eurocopter to kludge something together after Sikorsky made a splash with the X2. It looks like they just bolted some props onto a helicopter and called it revolutionary. And those props are not in a good location right next to the fuselage. So I agree with you that I'd like to see if they're going to actually do something with the technology.
Click to expand...

To a certain extent they did just bolt those on to the fuselage; It's a technology demonstrator. This idea has been around for some time, they just decided given the current state of technology this would be the best solution for the future. I think both the X2 and the X3 will be successful programs. At least that's my hope, anyway. I'm hoping that maybe they'll demonstrate the X3 at some airshows here so I can see it fly. The last actual demonstrator I saw fly was the XV-15 and it was amazing.
Click to expand...
The folks at Eurocopter made it abundantly clear that the X3 was nothing more than a demonstrator. They also made it clear that they are focused on civil uses for the the technology. That was from the CEO himself at the CEO panel.
 
Regarding the wings above the rotor...I believe that's only slightly better than positioning them below. You are still blocking airflow going into the rotor, especially in hover. There isn't much difference in rotor inflow and outflow air speed when you are a small fraction of a rotor diameter away from the rotor disk itself, be it above or below, and you still have a flat plate (the wing) in the way.


As for the X3 (Pardon, X-cube), I like the idea of an "80% solution". They're not trying to do something as hard as X2 and they're still getting a worthwhile increase in speed.
 

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