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Author Topic: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)  (Read 62142 times)

Offline blackstar

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #210 on: March 07, 2017, 11:39:49 am »
NASA already has the Dawn spacecraft orbiting minor planet Ceres in the asteroid belt:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceres_(dwarf_planet)#/media/File:Ceres_Orbit.svg

NASA also has another mission, Psyche, in development to go to the asteroid belt.


Offline Grey Havoc

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Offline sferrin

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #212 on: March 19, 2017, 07:31:45 am »
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Trumps_budget_would_cut_NASA_asteroid_mission_earth_science_999.html

"The proposal "focuses the nation's efforts on deep space exploration rather than Earth-centric research," it said."

Sounds good to me.  The asteroid mission will come back when it makes sense.
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Offline bobbymike

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #213 on: March 19, 2017, 08:54:00 am »
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Trumps_budget_would_cut_NASA_asteroid_mission_earth_science_999.html

"The proposal "focuses the nation's efforts on deep space exploration rather than Earth-centric research," it said."

Sounds good to me.  The asteroid mission will come back when it makes sense.
We need to get off the planet with permanent space colonies (we are too vulnerable alone on this blue marble) Moon, Mars that should be #1 focus IMHO.
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Offline Byeman

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #214 on: March 20, 2017, 07:30:12 am »

We need to get off the planet with permanent space colonies (we are too vulnerable alone on this blue marble) Moon, Mars that should be #1 focus IMHO.

Fine, not with US gov't money.  Let those individuals who wish to contribute, do it separately.  Set up a NGO or company to do it.

permanent space colonies will be of little benefit to the US gov't and its citizens. Especially, when the residents of such colonies are no longer citizens the mother country.

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #215 on: March 20, 2017, 08:28:16 am »

permanent space colonies will be of little benefit to the US gov't and its citizens. Especially, when the residents of such colonies are no longer citizens the mother country.

This is of course untrue. Militarily, industrially and culturally, offworld colonies done right (permanent, aimed at self-sufficiency, and large scale) would provide immense benefits for the sponsoring country. And, sure, someday those colonies will become their own nations. Would the US be better off if the Moon becomes "the nation Luna, formerly the US colony Luna" than if the nation of Luna is formerly a *Chinese* or *Russian* colony?

As with colonies in the "New World," the mere existence of distant offworld colonies will provide *all* kinds of benefits for the homeland. People living on Ceres, for example, will be interested in advanced propulsion systems and nuclear explosives in a way that the people back on Earth won't be. So when a comet is detected heading towards Central Park, who's going to have the tech to deal with it? And once again... will the US government be better off if those Cerean colonists speak some language other than English and have no allegiance to the US?

The US government *should* be devoting one percent of the federal budget specifically to exploring, claiming, colonizing and exploiting every single accessible corner of the solar system. There's no good reason why, centuries from now, "the United States" can't be spread from inside the orbit of Mercury to the Oort cloud and beyond. If interstellar travel ever becomes practical, there's no reason why the US flag can't replace those fifty stars with a stylized galaxy. Would you rather have the United Federation of Planets be based on  the US Constitution, or the dictats of the Holy Russian Putinate, or the fatwas of the Interstellar Caliphate?
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Offline Byeman

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #216 on: March 21, 2017, 01:15:27 pm »

This is of course untrue. Militarily, industrially and culturally, offworld colonies done right (permanent, aimed at self-sufficiency, and large scale) would provide immense benefits for the sponsoring country.

That is even more untrue.  There are no resource on the moon or Mars of benefit to earth unlike colonies of the past.

Offline Byeman

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #217 on: March 21, 2017, 01:16:54 pm »

The US government *should* be devoting one percent of the federal budget specifically to exploring, claiming, colonizing and exploiting every single accessible corner of the solar system. There's no good reason why, centuries from now, "the United States" can't be spread from inside the orbit of Mercury to the Oort cloud and beyond. If interstellar travel ever becomes practical, there's no reason why the US flag can't replace those fifty stars with a stylized galaxy. Would you rather have the United Federation of Planets be based on  the US Constitution, or the dictats of the Holy Russian Putinate, or the fatwas of the Interstellar Caliphate?

Wrong again.  Manifest Destiny is no longer a relevant belief and not even a consideration.  Even most flyover citizens don't believe that.
And the US government should not be spend any money on colonization
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 01:25:12 pm by Byeman »

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #218 on: March 21, 2017, 01:44:13 pm »

This is of course untrue. Militarily, industrially and culturally, offworld colonies done right (permanent, aimed at self-sufficiency, and large scale) would provide immense benefits for the sponsoring country.

That is even more untrue.  There are no resource on the moon or Mars of benefit to earth unlike colonies of the past.

Wow. Just... wow. Let me put it plainly: you are entirely wrong. Even if Mars was made entirely of dirt bought at Home Depot and had precisely zero potential for scientific discoveries, the simple fact that there would be people living across the solar system would provide *immediate* economic, social and scientific benefits. Every piece of technology the Martians develop to make their lives better on Mars would have application on Earth. Every bit of propulsion technology developed to make transport too and from easier, safer, more economical would provide materials and power utility on Earth. The knowledge that their are people like out Out There would provide incalculable social benefits.
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #219 on: March 21, 2017, 01:52:42 pm »

 Manifest Destiny is no longer a relevant belief

Of course it's not. The western frontier closed in the 1890's; at that point there was nowhere left. But *now* we have the potential for a brand new essentially *infinite* frontier. Manifest Destiny can AND SHOULD make a roaring comeback.



Quote
And the US government should not be spend any money on colonization

Opinion. A wrong opinion, sad, small minded and doomed to extinction, but opinion nonetheless.

Consider two cultures, A and B. Culture A decides that there's nothing to be gained by colonizing the universe. Culture B decides otherwise. Culture B expends it's treasure to do so, scrabbling and scratching. For decades it has little to show, but after a generation or two it has figured it out. After three or four generations it has a foothold on a few planets and asteroids. A few more generations it has well established colonies on dozens of worlds. A few more generations, it has expanded to the Oort cloud. A few more generations it has reached the nearest star and begins the process over again. In all that time, Culture A has smugly held to the belief that "Manifest Destiny" is a relic of the past.

When the stars belong to Culture B, when it's population is measured in quadrillions... of what relevance will Culture A be?
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And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline bobbymike

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #220 on: March 21, 2017, 02:19:39 pm »

 Manifest Destiny is no longer a relevant belief

Of course it's not. The western frontier closed in the 1890's; at that point there was nowhere left. But *now* we have the potential for a brand new essentially *infinite* frontier. Manifest Destiny can AND SHOULD make a roaring comeback.



Quote
And the US government should not be spend any money on colonization

Opinion. A wrong opinion, sad, small minded and doomed to extinction, but opinion nonetheless.

Consider two cultures, A and B. Culture A decides that there's nothing to be gained by colonizing the universe. Culture B decides otherwise. Culture B expends it's treasure to do so, scrabbling and scratching. For decades it has little to show, but after a generation or two it has figured it out. After three or four generations it has a foothold on a few planets and asteroids. A few more generations it has well established colonies on dozens of worlds. A few more generations, it has expanded to the Oort cloud. A few more generations it has reached the nearest star and begins the process over again. In all that time, Culture A has smugly held to the belief that "Manifest Destiny" is a relic of the past.

When the stars belong to Culture B, when it's population is measured in quadrillions... of what relevance will Culture A be?

Thanks OBB succinct and brilliant as usual.
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #221 on: March 21, 2017, 05:02:23 pm »

Thanks OBB succinct and brilliant as usual.

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And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline Michel Van

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #222 on: March 22, 2017, 02:11:18 am »
Quote
Thanks OBB succinct and brilliant as usual.

Yes, He's is right,
The current Space Race  are not about competition between USA, China or Russia and India
it's about SpaceX and Blue Origins plans for Solar system
If they they manage there Goals, like colonizing Mars and permanent Settlement on Moon, they are Culture B

The Classical national states become Culture A...

The Sci-fi manga series "Battle Angel Alita" by Yukito Kishiro, give quite excellent impression of such a Future
Earth is a Mad Max kind junkyard for the highly Industrialized Solar System...
highly recommended reading !
I love Strange Technology

Offline sferrin

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #223 on: March 22, 2017, 05:04:45 am »

 Manifest Destiny is no longer a relevant belief

Of course it's not. The western frontier closed in the 1890's; at that point there was nowhere left. But *now* we have the potential for a brand new essentially *infinite* frontier. Manifest Destiny can AND SHOULD make a roaring comeback.



Quote
And the US government should not be spend any money on colonization

Opinion. A wrong opinion, sad, small minded and doomed to extinction, but opinion nonetheless.

Consider two cultures, A and B. Culture A decides that there's nothing to be gained by colonizing the universe. Culture B decides otherwise. Culture B expends it's treasure to do so, scrabbling and scratching. For decades it has little to show, but after a generation or two it has figured it out. After three or four generations it has a foothold on a few planets and asteroids. A few more generations it has well established colonies on dozens of worlds. A few more generations, it has expanded to the Oort cloud. A few more generations it has reached the nearest star and begins the process over again. In all that time, Culture A has smugly held to the belief that "Manifest Destiny" is a relic of the past.

When the stars belong to Culture B, when it's population is measured in quadrillions... of what relevance will Culture A be?

Thanks OBB succinct and brilliant as usual.

^--- What he said.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Byeman

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Re: NASA Space Launch System (SLS)
« Reply #224 on: March 22, 2017, 06:50:21 am »

Wow. Just... wow. Let me put it plainly: you are entirely wrong. Even if Mars was made entirely of dirt bought at Home Depot and had precisely zero potential for scientific discoveries, the simple fact that there would be people living across the solar system would provide *immediate* economic, social and scientific benefits. Every piece of technology the Martians develop to make their lives better on Mars would have application on Earth. Every bit of propulsion technology developed to make transport too and from easier, safer, more economical would provide materials and power utility on Earth. The knowledge that their are people like out Out There would provide incalculable social benefits.

Wrong again.  Because Mars is made of dirt and will be constant importer of goods, it will be nothing but a drag on the mother country.  And hence because propulsion technology is limited and will take months, it won't really help in creating commerce.