Bin Laden dead

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Is it safe to assume we don't have stealthy silent SOFA craft because this would have been the pinnacle of all scenarios in which to use one? I'm sure the prevailing thought is that "we didn't want the Pakistani's to see it". However if we don't use it to get the highest value target ever, then whats the point?

EDIT:
Well this is interesting. People that lived there said the craft that malfunctioned and was subsequently "blown up" did not look like a helicopter....
 
sublight said:
People that lived there said the craft that malfunctioned and was subsequently "blown up" did not look like a helicopter....
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Blowing up and burning makes *most* things not look like what they used to be.

The feller who live tweeted the assault was clear that it was helicopters.
 
If you look at the timeline of the tweets, the helicopters blew up whatever it was that malfunctioned. So the SEALS came in on something quiet that the tweeter did not hear....

The timeline: http://tweetlibrary.com/damon/osamaraidlivetweets
 
Here.
 

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sublight said:
So the SEALS came in on something quiet that the tweeter did not hear....

The timeline: http://tweetlibrary.com/damon/osamaraidlivetweets
Click to expand...

" I heard it CIRCLE 3-4 times above, sounded purposeful."

"it was too noisy to be a spy craft, or, a very poor spy craft it was. "

"Two helicpoters, one down"

"two copters that followed the crashed one were foreign Cobras - and got away "

"there were at least two copters last night, I heard one but a friend heard two, for 15-20 minutes. "




So... yeah. helicopters.
 
Orionblamblam said:
sublight said:
So the SEALS came in on something quiet that the tweeter did not hear....

The timeline: http://tweetlibrary.com/damon/osamaraidlivetweets
Click to expand...

" I heard it CIRCLE 3-4 times above, sounded purposeful."

"it was too noisy to be a spy craft, or, a very poor spy craft it was. "

"Two helicpoters, one down"

"two copters that followed the crashed one were foreign Cobras - and got away "

"there were at least two copters last night, I heard one but a friend heard two, for 15-20 minutes. "




So... yeah. helicopters.
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If indeed helicopters are the case, why wouldn't we use a Senior Citizen type craft if one existed? It seems this is the specific scenario for which one might exist.
 
sublight said:
If indeed helicopters are the case, why wouldn't we use a Senior Citizen type craft if one existed? It seems this is the specific scenario for which one might exist.
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The concept of a Senior Citizen type aircraft is to penetrate highly defended air space. Pakistan clearly doesn't fit that bill. But perhaps a kill operation for Kim Jong Il would require that type of system.

Any clearly not the tail boom of a stealth blimb:

article-1382649-0BDF064800000578-937_634x412.jpg
 
sublight said:
If indeed helicopters are the case, why wouldn't we use a Senior Citizen type craft if one existed? It seems this is the specific scenario for which one might exist.
Click to expand...

They may have had to use aircraft that were already 'in-country', e.g. Blackhawks.
 
Abraham Gubler said:
Any clearly not the tail boom of a stealth blimb:
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Well now that you brought THAT up, I'm surely going to have to postulate that a "blimb" is what the CIA was watching him with..... :)

Its funny, I cant find "blimb" in the dictionary....
 
RAJ47 said:
Here.
Click to expand...

34 10' 09.40" N 73 14' 33.51" E

Absent from 2001 imagery even.
 
SOC said:
34 10' 09.40" N 73 14' 33.51" E

Absent from 2001 imagery even.
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I dont think I have actually seen satellite imagery with it on yet, then they did say construction didnt start until 2005, supposedly a three story building with 8ft walls and a walled "privacy" terrace.

Damn those stealth CIA blimbs! I knew they were watching us all somehow and thats how, blimbs!
 
SOC said:
RAJ47 said:
Here.
Click to expand...

34 10' 09.40" N 73 14' 33.51" E

Absent from 2001 imagery even.
Click to expand...

Update - CNN just released Pentagon imagery confirming the location.
 
Check this out: http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Graphics%20for%20background%20briefing.pdf
Recon photos of the compound before and after construction, and a detailed layout.
 
Abraham Gubler said:
Any clearly not the tail boom of a stealth blimb:

article-1382649-0BDF064800000578-937_634x412.jpg
Click to expand...

Maybe my helo recognition skills are rubbish.... is this the tail boom of a Blackhawk?

assuming this really is a photo of the chopper which crashed, I don't recognise it (or the paint scheme)

EDIT
to be clear, I'm asking for help identifying the tailboom, not supporting a senior citizen hypothesis
 
34.169358,73.242547 Google maps coordinates, matches released satellite and art releases.
 
Yes, I concur that it matches 34 10' 09.40" N 73 14' 33.51" E due to it matching the road network.

(Current Google Earth Standalone Program only has imagery up to 15 June 2005)

OBL_Compound.jpg

OBL_Compound_2.jpg

OBL_Compound_2A.jpg

OBL_Compound_3.jpg


BTW, This is only about 1,370m from the Pakistani Military Academy, Kakul as the crow flies. If you're going by driving distance, it's about 2,140~m to get to PMA Kakul; or about 3 minutes of driving at 30 MPH (50 kph).
 
Facility used to be an ISI safehouse:

http://gulfnews.com/news/world/other-world/compound-in-pakistan-was-once-a-safe-house-1.802539
 
Until last night anyway.
 
Everyone's raving about Bin Laden's death... but are we not being taken for fools once again? No images of the raid, or of his death, or the funeral, or the corpse's immersion... We are simply supposed to believe the official news releases...

Fabrication of fake threats and false evidence came so naturally to the previous administration that I can only be extremely wary of anything that is backed up by so little proof, sorry guys. Satellite pics of Pakistani houses and GPS coordinates do not change the main fact here: the world at large is buying the story that they've been dying to hear for ten years, without a hint of a critical mind.

Fox News, Al Jazira and all this world's purveyors of official propaganda must feel really good tonight: they have ample proof that however fake, there will always be a majority of people to buy their news.
 
The tinfoil aisle is that way. . .
 
Stargazer2006 said:
Everyone's raving about Bin Laden's death... but are we not being taken for fools once again? No images of the raid, or of his death, or the funeral, or the corpse's immersion... We are simply supposed to believe the official news releases...

Fabrication of fake threats and false evidence came so naturally to the previous administration that I can only be extremely wary of anything that is backed up by so little proof, sorry guys. Satellite pics of Pakistani houses and GPS coordinates do not change the main fact here: the world at large is buying the story that they've been dying to hear for ten years, without a hint of a critical mind.

Fox News, Al Jazira and all this world's purveyors of official propaganda must feel really good tonight: they have ample proof that however fake, there will always be a majority of people to buy their news.
Click to expand...
Your stance is going to piss some people off here, but if there is enough of that skepticism then surely some video and headshot pictures would eventually be released. I think given the big lie that was WMD, certainly some people are going to want real evidence this time around.
 
sublight said:
Your stance is going to piss some people off here, but if there is enough of that skepticism then surely some video and headshot pictures would eventually be released. I think given the big lie that was WMD, certainly some people are going to want real evidence this time around.
Click to expand...

Exactly. That's the idea. I'm not into systematic denial or conspiracy theories here, just being wary and asking for a little more than what's been given to us so far...
 
Apparently we used MH-60s from Ghazi AFB in Pakistan.

FlightPath_OBL.jpg


We also double tapped him to the left side of his face. Which may explain why no photos have surfaced or been released -- it wouldn't have been pretty.

EDIT: Apparently the last place on earth that held OBL's remains before we dumped him at sea was USS Carl Vinson, CVAN-70.

Tons.jpg
 
Stargazer2006 said:
Everyone's raving about Bin Laden's death... but are we not being taken for fools once again? No images of the raid, or of his death, or the funeral, or the corpse's immersion... We are simply supposed to believe the official news releases...

Fabrication of fake threats and false evidence came so naturally to the previous administration that I can only be extremely wary of anything that is backed up by so little proof, sorry guys. Satellite pics of Pakistani houses and GPS coordinates do not change the main fact here: the world at large is buying the story that they've been dying to hear for ten years, without a hint of a critical mind.

Fox News, Al Jazira and all this world's purveyors of official propaganda must feel really good tonight: they have ample proof that however fake, there will always be a majority of people to buy their news.
Click to expand...

Jeez I am sick of this crap about "fake threats and fake evidence." of the previous administration. You want to talk critical thinking try understanding the disference between wrong or incorrect as opposed to fake or lying (as other posters have said)

I want an answer from those who use the term fake and lies, "Do you actually think that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell/Rice all sat around and said, "We know the infomration is fake and that we are lying but we are going to war anyways."

Do you really think that meeting took place?
 
bobbymike said:
Do you really think that meeting took place?
Click to expand...

I believe that to become a politician in the highest spheres of power, you've got to be dictated by strong personal ambition and ready to do anything to maintain your power, image and influence. I believe that ALL of our world's leader use lie, manipulation of information, deception and propaganda through various means on a daily basis. But then what I believe is of no importance to this topic. First because 1°) I won't change anybody's mind ; 2°) I don't even want to try; 3°) it's not really what the topic is about.

So whether that meeting or another actually took place, with all or only part of these people, or whether they are all the puppets or other vested interests who pull the strings, we shall never know. But that doesn't mean we have to take everything the governments tell us for granted. In the world we live in, where individual liberties are constantly under strain, such a naive, gullible attitude is highly dangerous.
 
Stargazer2006 said:
sublight said:
Your stance is going to piss some people off here, but if there is enough of that skepticism then surely some video and headshot pictures would eventually be released. I think given the big lie that was WMD, certainly some people are going to want real evidence this time around.
Click to expand...

Exactly. That's the idea. I'm not into systematic denial or conspiracy theories here, just being wary and asking for a little more than what's been given to us so far...
Click to expand...

OK,

Look at this from the political point of view. The President of the US is not going to announce this unless he is 99 44/100% sure they've got him. Consider the ramifications of a video popping up a couple of days from now going, "Nyah, nayh missed me. That was my crazy cousin Lenny Bin Laden".

So, what to do with the body. Can't show it on TV, look how so many in the Middle East got upset when it was found out that there was a video of Saddam's execution. They're claiming they wanted to go along with the Islamic custom of burying some one within 24 hours of their death, to show "sensitivity". Saudi Arabia wouldn't take the body, we sure wouldn't want it here, so at sea it is. It's not supposed to be at sea unless the person died at sea or if there was a chance the body would be dug up, and you can bet that would happen.

If you want to think conspiracy (I'm not) , the more likely one would be that they got him at some time prior to this and they're just now announcing it.
 
bobbymike said:
Jeez I am sick of this crap about "fake threats and fake evidence." of the previous administration. You want to talk critical thinking try understanding the disference between wrong or incorrect as opposed to fake or lying (as other posters have said)

I want an answer from those who use the term fake and lies, "Do you actually think that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell/Rice all sat around and said, "We know the infomration is fake and that we are lying but we are going to war anyways."

Do you really think that meeting took place?
Click to expand...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/may/29/iraq.usa1

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/13/60minutes/main20042166.shtml

You'd have to be an idiot to believe that guy, so what is worse, they were idiots or they had the fabled meeting you suggest?
 
GoingDown.jpg


President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, along with members of the national security team, receive an update on the mission against Osama bin Laden in the Situation Room of the White House, May 1, 2011. Please note: a classified document seen in this photograph has been obscured. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)

------------

PMA_Kakul_OBL.jpg


Some background on PMA Kakul

Link

The Pakistan Military Academy (also known as PMA or Kakul (Urdu: پاکستان فوجی درسگاہ; Pakestan Fewja Dersegah) is a four-year coeducational federal service military academy.[1] It is located at Kakul near Abbottabad in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan. The Pakistan Military Academy is similar in function to Sandhurst, Saint-Cyr, and West Point, and provides training to the officers of Pakistan Army. The academy has three training battalions and 12 companies. Another 2,000 guests each year, from over 34 countries, receive some training at PMA.

This would be like Israel finding Hitler living a few blocks down the road from West Point or Sandhurst.
 
From Wired' Danger Room: LINK

OBL was effectively drone proof due to PMA Kakul being down the road from him and also being the HQ/garrison for the Baluch Regiment of the Pakistani Army.

It's also within the ADIZ for Islamabad. So no way is a drone even going to get overhead. Also, a Reaper can only carry 4 x 500 lb bombs -- not enough to ensure target death with a lot of blast walls in the compound.

It's why back in March, Obama was presented with a plan to use the B-2A to liquidate Osama with 16 x 2,000 lb bombs flattening the compound to rubble.
 
Friend of mine raised a point which is related to SecretProjects:

A while back there was a lot of hubbub over the "Beast of Kandahar" and why would we deploy a Stealth UAV to Afghanistan of all places? It's looking more likely that we used the BoK to penetrate Islamabad's ADIZ to spy on that mansion and other sites of interest to us.
 
RyanCrierie said:
Friend of mine raised a point which is related to SecretProjects:

A while back there was a lot of hubbub over the "Beast of Kandahar" and why would we deploy a Stealth UAV to Afghanistan of all places? It's looking more likely that we used the BoK to penetrate Islamabad's ADIZ to spy on that mansion and other sites of interest to us.
Click to expand...

From: http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=16001
"The RQ-170 will directly support combatant commander needs for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance to locate targets."

Pakistan is exactly the kind of non permissive environment a platform like the RQ-170 is designed for.
 
sublight said:
Well now that you brought THAT up, I'm surely going to have to postulate that a "blimb" is what the CIA was watching him with..... :)

Its funny, I cant find "blimb" in the dictionary....
Click to expand...

Ahh so this is how conspiracy theorists generate their whacky ideas: via typos. No doubt explains the belief in the faked “Moon Landinb”, Obama’s “Hawaib birth certificate” and of course now that US SOF killed “Osama Bin Ladeb”.
 
Abraham Gubler said:
sublight said:
Well now that you brought THAT up, I'm surely going to have to postulate that a "blimb" is what the CIA was watching him with..... :)

Its funny, I cant find "blimb" in the dictionary....
Click to expand...

Ahh so this is how conspiracy theorists generate their whacky ideas: via typos. No doubt explains the belief in the faked “Moon Landinb”, Obama’s “Hawaib birth certificate” and of course now that US SOF killed “Osama Bin Ladeb”.
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe... But be careful because a blimbed Osama becomes an Obama...
 
Stargazer2006 said:
Everyone's raving about Bin Laden's death... but are we not being taken for fools once again?
Click to expand...

...Nonono, we are *not* going that direction. Even if I have to repeat the five days of no sleep I did coordinating the Columbia Loss FAQ in creating an FAQ to debunk any nutjob claims that OBL wasn't exterminated and the whole thing was an Obama hoax. Like it or not, 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This terrorist is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone straight to bleedin' Hell! 'E's a stiff, albeit a soggy one! Bereft of life, 'e sleeps with the fishes! If we hadn't nailed 'im 'e'd still be wankin' his wank crank with his ten concubines! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' daemonic rap band invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-OSAMA!!

[ahem]

...SG, let's face facts, pal: Osama Bin Laden is not only dead, half his brains were blown out, and he's now currently upsetting the digestive tracts of marine life in the middle of the Arabian Sea. Trust me, you'll sleep better, and you won't look like you've got a tinfoil hat superglued to your head... :mad:
 
Stargazer2006 said:
Abraham Gubler said:
Ahh so this is how conspiracy theorists generate their whacky ideas: via typos. No doubt explains the belief in the faked “Moon Landinb”, Obama’s “Hawaib birth certificate” and of course now that US SOF killed “Osama Bin Ladeb”.
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe... But be careful because a blimbed Osama becomes an Obama...
Click to expand...

LOL.
 
quellish said:
RyanCrierie said:
Friend of mine raised a point which is related to SecretProjects:

A while back there was a lot of hubbub over the "Beast of Kandahar" and why would we deploy a Stealth UAV to Afghanistan of all places? It's looking more likely that we used the BoK to penetrate Islamabad's ADIZ to spy on that mansion and other sites of interest to us.
Click to expand...

From: http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=16001
"The RQ-170 will directly support combatant commander needs for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance to locate targets."

Pakistan is exactly the kind of non permissive environment a platform like the RQ-170 is designed for.
Click to expand...

Pretty sad when a stealth aircraft is required to keep your "allies" from screwing you over.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8488236/WikiLeaks-Osama-bin-Laden-protected-by-Pakistani-security.html
 
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