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Author Topic: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I  (Read 184990 times)

Offline mithril

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #360 on: June 13, 2011, 10:18:13 am »
The smaller F-22 is a fighter-bomber so why can't the larger J-20 be one too? -SP

The YF-22 was (originally intended as) a fighter-bomber. Probably would have been a very good one indeed. The F-22A is more of a kludge in this role, although still probably more capable than a lot of aircraft designed from the outset as such.
nope, the ATF was intended from the start to be a pure air combat machine, like the F-15's it was replacing. "not a pound for air to ground".


the J-20 just isn't a very good design for a bomber. small weapon bays, which would limit it's bomb load to the lightest air to ground weapons. wing/canard/tail design best suited to high speed manuevering, but less apt at low speed. (bad idea for a bomber..look at the Luftwaffe "ground attack" F-104's for an example.) and no fittings for designator systems to guide smart munitions.

not to mention the fact that the company that built it is currently in the process of refitting the J-10's in service for the ground to air role.

no, the J-20 is probably designed as a fighter. probably more of a Mig-31 style interception style fighter. high speed, able to reach, shoot down the enemy, and return quickly. just what the chinese need their aerial interdiction offensive doctrine and their defensive doctrine. they've got J-10's and J-11's for air to ground.

Offline Deino

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #361 on: June 13, 2011, 10:51:39 am »
Are You sure that the bay is too small ???;D
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
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W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline chuck4

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #362 on: June 13, 2011, 01:21:04 pm »
J-20 has a true bubble canopy clearly elevated for maximum 360 visbility.    Which was the last jet designed from the on-set with a heavy air-to-ground requirement that had a true bubble canopy?     If the J-20 has any air-to-ground role, it must be secondary, taking advantage of the fact that a modern fighter optimized for air-to-air must necessarily possess the surplus of thrust and lift to also be able to carry a large bomb load.

Offline Deino

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #363 on: June 13, 2011, 10:16:00 pm »
Confirmed - if not a mock-up - two J-20 at CAC !
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline chuck4

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #364 on: June 14, 2011, 09:38:50 am »
Now are the two prototypes externally identical?

Offline Deino

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #365 on: June 14, 2011, 10:55:17 am »
Now are the two prototypes externally identical?

Honestly ... I think from this picture alone it's not possible to tell.

Otherwise I expect them to be the two aircrfat we've already seen: the one with the AL-31F/FN used for the taxi- and high-speed tests .... and the other one with these "silverish" WS-1X-types (or coloured AL-31) ;D.

Deino
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline Deino

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #366 on: June 14, 2011, 11:07:13 pm »
There's a lot of controversial discussion going on at SDF after this ... and later another photo was posted, showing two ... or even three J-20 !   ???

IMO the one showing three is "surely" faked by using this new one, which IMO was taken a bit earlier than the one already posted yesterday. As such IMO in the first photo - the one now found - one is sitting in the hangar and the other one is on the taxiway on the left ... rolling from left to right in front of the hangar.

And again some funny  >:( "one" used both to ps'e them into one photo showing three J-20.  ... or what do You think ??

Deino
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 03:06:09 am by Deino »
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #367 on: June 15, 2011, 01:53:59 am »
The original photo could be genuine or faked, its very difficult to tell. If you left the camera on a tripod and took multiple pics while the J-20 went out of the hangar and back, its fakable.

We need something more to be sure. Multiple pics. Eyewitness accounts. Video would be much more convincing.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 01:56:47 am by overscan »
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Offline Deino

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #368 on: June 15, 2011, 03:27:55 am »
The original photo could be genuine or faked, its very difficult to tell. If you left the camera on a tripod and took multiple pics while the J-20 went out of the hangar and back, its fakable.

We need something more to be sure. Multiple pics. Eyewitness accounts. Video would be much more convincing.

Yeppp ... I just tried to put all three "photos" together for comparison ... IMO the last is most likely faked by a simple combination of both, but also the other ones look "strange" IMO.  :-[

Deino
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline Deino

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #369 on: June 16, 2011, 06:21:47 am »
Nice sequence ...  ;D

Below is reportedly the inner AB-details of the J-20's engine ... does it help us do decide if an AL-31-vesion or WS-1x ?? ???

Deino
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 06:31:38 am by Deino »
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline flateric

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #370 on: June 16, 2011, 06:36:11 am »
flap-flap-flap
additional propulsor I think)
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Trident

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #371 on: June 16, 2011, 08:53:13 am »
The afterburner flame holder configuration does not match either engine exactly, although it is much closer to the AL-31F (the only difference is that its concentric rings are braced by 10 radial struts rather than 11 as on known AL-31Fs) than the WS-10(A).

EDIT: For some reason the whole thing looks more like a scale model though ???
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 10:46:47 am by Trident »

Offline chuck4

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #372 on: June 16, 2011, 11:32:54 am »
Indeed, the edge of the after burner nozzle lacks clearly separated pedals,  suggesting the whole thing is molded as one piece of plastic as might be found on a scale model built from a kit.

Offline flateric

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #373 on: June 16, 2011, 12:14:45 pm »
Indeed, the edge of the after burner nozzle lacks clearly separated pedals,  suggesting the whole thing is molded as one piece of plastic as might be found on a scale model built from a kit.

and Stephen found this MODEL KIT, reporting at DEW Line, winning much of internetz today



« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 12:20:51 pm by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Deino

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Re: Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part I
« Reply #374 on: June 16, 2011, 01:18:47 pm »
Hmmm ... Yes I know and esp. after the faked JH-XX story it's "hip" to tell everything again a FAKE or a mock-up.

However - and even if I agree to be more careful than before (YES, me too !) - we should not forget that there's a huge market in China at the moment for everything related to the latest military achievements. Game parks, exhibitions and military shows are spreading like mashrooms after a warm summer rain.

Additionally we already had these reports about two prototypes from eyewitness reports from the first flight ... we all know at least minor differences on the airframe + the different exhausts leaving the possibility of two prototypes (even if some don't like it) ... all what was missing was a photo-proof.

And finally this is at best a subscale model (maybe 1:2 or 1:1,5) made by a company called "Shi Jiazhuang hypo-light-speed tech Ltd" reportedly located in Cangzhou ... and not in Chengdu (I know that is not necessarily an argument, but IMO it's quite stupid to assume that the second one on the tarmac at CAC is this model!)

Deino
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 01:20:52 pm by Deino »
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)