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Author Topic: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects  (Read 91093 times)

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2007, 04:12:19 am »
Hi all'
this is as far as I got with the P110 profile.
Tail variants at a later date.

Cheers
Peter
« Last Edit: April 02, 2007, 04:14:48 am by Flitzer »
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Offline Jemiba

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2007, 09:32:44 am »
Really great !
And with regards to the tail unit, I would point to the fact, that
the ventral part isn't just a fin, but has a rudder. So it's more
a reversed conventional tail, but a butterfly tail, I think.   
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Online red admiral

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2007, 11:17:24 am »
Shouldn't the wing guns be slightly further outboard? Currently they still need interrupter gear as the prop interferes with them. Generally looks good though.

Offline smurf

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2007, 12:22:41 pm »
Jemiba said
Quote
the ventral part isn't just a fin, but has a rudder
which was part of the reason I thought it vulnerable.  If we are voting, I'd go for a butterfly tail rather than a conventional fin upwards tail unit.  IMHO it somehow seems to fit the plane better.

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2007, 10:49:19 pm »
Many thanks for your comments.

Red Admiral.
You are right. I didn't notice the guns being in line for fouling the prop blades.
I'll fix it. Thanks for the lone of your hawkeye.

Smurf.
I will do another version with, as you say, a Butterfly tail at a later date.

Cheers
Peter
 ;D
"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2007, 01:32:14 pm »
Just read the article about the Bugatti 100 and the 110P fighter version
in the Fliegerkalender 2007 ("Aviators Calendar 2007), written by Ferdinand
c.W. Käsmann. He says, the 110P would have been powered by two 525hp,
liquid powered Bugatti 50B engines, derivatives of the type which was used
in sports cars. No mention of the type of prop to be used .
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2007, 09:10:40 pm »
Excuse me for asking but shouldn't there also be some form of air intakes for both the engine aspiration and cooling?  I seem to remember on the racer there were intakes in the roots (which I felt were far too small) for radiater inlets.  They appear to be missing from your profile.

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2007, 11:32:39 pm »
Many thanks for your comments.

Jemiba
I was going to do the 2 x 50B's, but the concensus of opinion suggested the best bet for the fighter version would have been the Hispano Suzia 12Y.
But as I hope to do more variants, I could always do one with the two 50B's.

Rickshaw.
You are right there should be a wing root intake. But on the 100P there was a novel cooling system with intakes on the leading edges of the tail fins and exits at the trailing edges of the main wings right up against the fuselage sides, so the wing root intakes may have only needed comparitively small openings...(?)

Interesting stuff..
Cheers
Peter

 ;D
"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"

joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2007, 11:39:12 pm »
This may help visualize the cooling system.

Cheers, Jon

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2007, 12:09:50 am »
Rather complex a cooling system.  I wonder if it would have, like so many novel cooling methods have proven good enough for the job?  At least they didn't attempt that other useless system, evaporative cooling!  I think you'll find in a service aircraft, they'd have needed to have larger wing root intakes for the radiators.   Ensuring sufficient cooling has often been the downfall of many a novel aircraft design.   :'(

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2007, 06:27:45 am »
According to this drawing from the patent, the intakes in the leading edges seem
to have had no function for the basic cooling sytem, maybe acting as oil coolers ?

Flitzer, yes, probably the best motorisation for a fighter variant, would have been a single
engine and probably a single prop, if there would have been no reason to counter
torque problems with a contra prop. I just wanted to point out, that Ettore Bugatti
himself proposed the fighter version, too, to be powered by modified car engines.
In itself quite a strange proposal to military customers, I think. Can't think of Willy
Messerschmitt, to have designed his lightweight fighter, which became the Bf 109,
around a powerplant made up of two Mercedes Ben 7.1 litres sports car engines, although
they powered very succesful the Mercedes SSK ...  ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2007, 07:34:16 am »
Many thanks Jemiba, Rickshaw and Joncarrfarrely
Very useful diagrams....excellent.

By the sound of it I could be doing variants for the rest of my life... :o ;D

But I probably will do a version with the original twin engines.

And I'll add a pair of intakes...enlarged slightly to the profile seen above.

Cheers
Peter
 ;D
"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"

joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2007, 08:42:39 am »
How about using this low angle V-16 design?


More info at the Bugatti Aircraft site:
http://www.bugattiaircraft.com/

In the text on the site the author makes the following statement:
"The lay-out of the engine, with the very wide angle-V of approx. 135 degrees, is not fit for fighter aircraft."
He is evidently unfamiliar with the 'buried' engine concepts that were being kicked around  in the late '30s - early '40s.
On the drawing the engine width is 1167mm, which is not too wide for a mid- mounted buried engine.

Cheers, Jon

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2007, 08:51:48 am »
Thanks Jon...

I considered using the V16, but read the same "not fit for a fighter" and not being a tech genius, I left it out, but....... ;) as I thought at the time, it would have made a very interesting concept, I may well do one of these brutes too...and let the experts argue over it.... ;D
Finx:   Have I enough life left to do all these variants?


Thanks for the pic.

Cheers
Peter
"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"

Offline robunos

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2007, 08:33:15 am »
Just a thought, the drawing posted by jeniba shows jointed drive shafts from the twin engines passing either side of the cockpit.
If, as in flitzer's reconstruction, it was re-engined with a single engine, where would the driveshaft go? A straight shaft would go through the middle of the cockpit (and the pilot).

    robin.
Where ARE the Daleks when you need them......