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Author Topic: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects  (Read 89494 times)

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2007, 10:46:52 pm »
Thank you ...

Nice juicy 3 bladers seem to be in order then.

You are right Jemiba....they will look better... ;D :o

Cheers
Peter
"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"

joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2007, 11:19:08 pm »
You could get by with a somewhat lower prop rpm using three-bladed props rather than two-bladed ones for the same, or modestly higher, engine output, or you could go with a slightly smaller prop diameter and keep the same rpm.  Personally, I'd go for three-bladed props and an uprated engine for the fighter.

The question on the engine is, uprated to what?
The racer was to be powered by twin straight-8s, the airframe doesn't have the space for larger engines mounted in the same fashion and getting a useful power boost from the Bugatti engines could have been problematic. Aside from space issues I doubt the rather complicated drive system would have been able to absorb greatly increased power. A more likely power choice would be a single super-charged Hispano 12Y diving a single three-blade propeller...not as sexy as contra-props but much simpler.
Or I suppose one could have the beast powered by Harry A. Millers 1,200 cu in. V-16 aircraft engine design, Miller rated the design at 2,000 hp. ;)

Cheers, Jon

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2007, 11:42:46 pm »
I suspect the only useful power boost one could give the Bugatti engines, assuming they were stressed for it, would be supercharging or turbo-supercharging (most likely the former unless you were going for alititude performance).  For simplicity's sake, I rather like the idea of a Hispano 12Y driving a simple three-bladed prop as you can make the prop gearbox stronger when you don't have to worry about contra-rotating props (fewer gears mean to fit the volume means you can make the individual components more robust).  I wonder, though, if a 16-cylinder equivalent of the 12Y was available and would fit? 

I'd like to know more about the Miller engine, but comparing displacement and output values with the V1650 (Merlin) and Allison V1710, I'm a bit skeptical of that output.

joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2007, 12:20:44 am »
Hi Evan,
the Miller V-16 was one of Harry's 'paper projects' from later in his career. He no longer had Leo Goossen by his side
to turn dreams into practical reality, so its anybody's guess how the engine woudl have turned out.
Miller also worked on a V-16 engine design for Bell during the same period...a replacement for  the V-1710 in the P-39.

Cheers, Jon

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2007, 08:13:01 am »
Hi again

So far for the P110 version, I have...

3 blade prop,
Flat panel windscreen to cockpit,
Clipped wings
and a choice of engines....

I ask...
Which engine(s) would have been the most likely?

Also would the fabric/dope skin have been retained or would a metal one have been adopted instead?


Many thanks
Peter

 ;D
"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"

Offline red admiral

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2007, 03:23:02 pm »
Hispano-Suiza 12 Y or Z quite likely. Not much weight increase. Plenty of space to accomodate one. Have to dtich the original contra-props though.

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2007, 07:33:34 am »
Hi all...

work in progress of the P110 profile.
I decided to go with one of the HS 12's as red admiral suggested.

Your comments would be a big help.
Many thanks
Peter
 ;D
"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"

Offline smurf

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2007, 09:48:06 am »
Not sure about the tail unit.  The vertical surface may be OK on the racer, but looks a bit vulnerable to a rough landing by a damaged fighter or a wounded pilot.  Is a "conventional" butterfly going too far from the original?

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2007, 10:19:30 pm »
Hi smurf,
You could well be right, but I didn't want to be too radical in changes from the P100, visual ones at least.
I'm trying to do the minimum changes to get a reasonable representation of the P110 version.

But....lol...I could do two versions. One as is and one with more logical changes.

For example, I'm still not sure if I should do the skin in metal or stick with the doped fabric of the P100?

Many thanks
Peter
 ;D
"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"

Offline Archibald

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2007, 12:41:20 am »
Hispano-Suiza 12 Y or Z quite likely. Not much weight increase. Plenty of space to accomodate one. Have to dtich the original contra-props though.

Very good!

I would say 12Y (860 hp) for a 1939 aircraft. 12Z only see the light of the day  in the 1945-1946 era. 12Y was the engine of MS-406, VG-33 and D-520  ;)
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine - Bordeaux - Mérignac / Dassault aviation museum
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Offline smurf

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2007, 01:58:20 am »
Quote
I'm trying to do the minimum changes to get a reasonable representation of the P110 version.
Yes, I thought so.  There is a precedent - the Martin-Baker MB2 appeared with a variety of tails before settling to a conventional one, and later the Supermarine 508 etc. I'd be interested to see the variant.

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2007, 02:46:57 am »
Thanks for the input...great stuff.

I'll continue with this version, then do a set of side views at least with a variety of tail choices.

Any views on metal skin yet?  ::)


Cheers
Peter
 ;D
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 02:49:47 am by Flitzer »
"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"

Offline Farloccus

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2007, 07:05:02 am »

Your (wonderful) website seems to be offline...  ???

Offline Kim Margosein

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2007, 05:40:08 pm »
With all the modification to make the Bugatti fit for military use,  I am reminded of the Bf-209 (the speed record aircraft) that went down the same road.  By the time you make the aircraft and engine robust enough to be useful, you're left with an aircraft with little or no advantage over off the shelf contemporary fighters. 

Kim Margosein

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Bugatti 100 Racer and 110 Fighter Projects
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2007, 11:41:53 pm »
Hi Farloccus
Yes its down at the moment and I don't know why... :-\

My workmate runs it but he's away on holiday, so I'll have to wait his return.

And Kim
you are probably right, but I do this sort of thing for fun and just to see what "might" have been.
It's just that the French had their aircraft development put on hold, so to speak, and with the Bugatti P100 hidden away, I thought it interesting enough to see how things may have panned out under different circumstances.

Many thanks
Peter
"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"