Sukhoi PAK-FA (T-50, I-21)

[medal64]

http://www.star-telegram.com/business/story/405748.html


There is an important news about F-15 and the future of the Usaf.Usa is planning to get 381 f-22 Raptors and 1763 F-35 aircrafts.Do you think can Rusaf get 2144 PAK-FA before it's service life.I read a news today Rusaf will get five su-34 aircrafts in 2008.What do you think the production speed about Russian facilities.I'm sure PAK-FA will be a very advanced aircraft and I'm also waiting to see it but will it get enough funds from the goverment and how many PAK-FA will produce per year?

[flateric]

Do you think can Rusaf get 2144 PAK-FA before it's service life.

Are you nut? We could hardly afford 24 Su-34s by the end of 2010 (may be), and 70 of them till 2015...And I'm pretty sure that even US can't afford F-22/JSF numbers you are talking about, especially if Dems will come (seems that they will).

[medal64]

The numbers are from the text and these are my impressions about the production speed.I also want to see it flying and I really hope it happens the world's best aircraft.

[Matej]

Do you know how many B-2s wanted USAF to buy? And how many it really afford? The number you stated for JSF purchase is probably the 50th (!) official estimation that I know about. And it has degressive tendency all the time.

[medal64]

This was the first time I wrote about the USA's purchuase amount not the 50th maybe there can be maybe not (big possibility not) and I support the production of the PAK-fA maybe more than you.I'm looking your post for the first time in this treat.But I think the main problem is the Russian facilities production speed.Maybe this problem can surpass but I think before the serial production of the PAK-FA this problem must solve by the company.

[Matej]

...probably the 50th (!) official estimation that...

Not wrote by you - it was not offensive - I was referring to numbers given by official USAF/Lockheed/US Government officials. I am collecting the information about MRF/JAST/JSF programs since the early 90s, so my point is that at the beginning of the JSF program there were very optimistic plans that are continuously reducing. And after the latest troubles http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f-35-jsf-hit-by-serious-design-problems-04311/#more I am very skeptic about current production estimation for JSF.

Regarding the production of the PAK FA - there are only two important factors for every country: 1. technology 2. decision to relocate money to production of the weapons If you give some 10 mld EUR to Russia, you will be very surprised how quick they will be able to produce dozens of Su-34 for example.

PS: If you didn't see my posts in this thread before, just go to the beginning of it 

[medal64]

  27.12.2007  Board of directors " Company " Sukhoi" has approved the budget for 2008
 

Moscow. On December, 27th has passed session of Board of directors of Open Society " Company " Sukhoi».

The board of directors has considered two questions: « the Statement of the budget of a society for 2008 » and « About a course of works under project ПАК ФА ».

Members of Board of directors the unanimous decision have approved the budget of a society for 2008 developed according to the budgetary instruction of Open Society " ОАК ".

Members of Board of directors have been informed on results of performance of the program and financing of project ПАК ФА in 2007 and problems for 2008.


Does PAK-FA project has financial problems for 2008 or does it mean all problems for you?
 

[flateric]

PAK FA currently gets all the funding requested. It has just huge management and organizational problems.

[medal64]

Flateric I would like to ask you a few question.Is Russian aviation industry living qualified person problem?And how is the education at universities?Most of them well educated/graduated engineers and technicians or are there bribe problems?The last question is what do you think about the future of the Russian aviation industry?

[flateric]

Is Russian aviation industry has qualified person problem? - Absolutely yes, with some positive signs.
Current salaries at KNAAPO for example (that one in much better condition than other industry centers)
http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/about/vacancy/ 1 USD = 24,5 RUR Qualified workers are such a rare species that often gets much more than an engineer.
At Russian Boeing branch graduated student have a payroll about 14 000 RUR, at Tupolev 13 500...
Average employers age at Boeing 25-30, at Tupolev - 55-60.

FYI, my Moscow apartments rent is 15 000 and it's damn fantastic LOW, because average is around 20 000 - 25 000. Plus you have to eat something - add about 10 000. What about clothing, travelling, hobbies?

Education is still excellent, and it's FREE for those who has passed entry exams. But a few go for professions in aerospace they have learned for. From my year, 1997, just two of my knowledge actually working in industry, all others went to private business. State trying to return it's spendings for FREE education by making graduates work for government at least several years after college.

Bribery problems? Stealing? - Absolutely. Giving company builidings for rent to commercants, selling property, selling hardware and archives. Paying military for winning contests, supply tenders - all in the best traditions of Western aerospace industry and even more.

[medal64]

Thanks Flateric for answers.The main problem is looking like salaries not qualified person.

[avatar]

Hello people,
As far as the Indian numbers are concerned ..... several reports suggest that about 100 PAK-FA units may be inducted in the so called Heavy Combat Aircraft (HCA) category of the IAF ... a slot solely occupied by   the Su 30 MKI as of today. Moreover since it is not quite clear whether the PAK-FA is a contemporary of the F-22 or between the F-22 and the JSF in capabilities, it may be a trifle premature to predict VVS numbers. I am aware of certain Russian forums attributing rather impressive capabilities to the PAK-FA and if that is the case then even with possible export orders PAK-FA numbers will probably remain modest.

[paralay]

 8)

[avatar]

I am a regular visitor to your site and have seen your various PAK-FA illustrations. I get the feeling that quite a few of these are approximations of the various iterations that the PAK-FA program must have been through. I maybe wrong but the IAF these days seems to be veering towards aircraft that can fly hot and high and have rather large monolithic wings . Be that as it may I remember a Russian expert mentioning in some foreign publication ( from my perspective) that India's former president Abdul Kalam had been shown an "example" of the T-50 which was twin engined. Apparently while impressed by the overall scheme , the Indians were  at that point of time veering towards a single engined lighter design possibly from OKB MiG. However we are all aware of what happened in the course of the last year and as my last post suggested the PAK-FA will probably be inducted in the HCA category.

[overscan]

Technologies of the fighter of the fifth generation have high innovation potential for the economy of Russia


 Moscow, on January 24. The special feature of program on the creation of the fighter of the fifth generation is the fact that from its frames take root newest science-intensive technologies with the high innovation potential not only for the aircraft industry, but also the economy of Russia as a whole. So count contributors "PAK FA: history, problem, the prospect for creation", published before the last number of log “national defense”, the general director of company “Sukhoi” Mikhail Pogosyan the chairman of military technical advice to military industrial commission with the government RF Vladimir Dmitriev. The confronting in the arsenal VVS of Russia fighters of family “Su” and “MiG”, the authors of material write, they do not completely correspond to up-to-date requirements on the multifunctionality, combat radius, viability before air and to other parameters. Position is complicated by the completion of the periods of the operation of aircraft with the insufficient purchases of the new models of aviation engineering. In connection with this it is necessary to organize in Russia the series production of the fighters of the fifth generation (PAK FA). This aircraft is capable to effectively solve the combat missions independent of of the nature of possible military actions and to execute missions due to the conditions of the active technical counteraction of enemy. Its high combat effectiveness will be specified beyond technical flight characteristics and possibility to use high-precision weapons. On it will be established the most up-to-date engines, aircraft and onboard radio-electronic equipment. Work on creation PAK FA began still at the end the 80th - beginning of the 90's, but they were not to the end realized because of the complex financial and economic conditions. In 2000. government RF published instruction on the refinement of the tactical-technical characteristics of new vehicle. In 2001. such data were given by the leading Russian aircraft construction enterprises. Best was acknowledged the project of company “Sukhoi”. For the successful realization of project, count M. Pogosyan and V. Dmitriev, besides comprehensive state support, creations of favorable conditions for the attraction of extra-budgetary funds, simplification in the procedures of the coordination of permissive documents, the exact forecast of the requirement at the point of the aircraft of the fifth generation and possibility of its satisfaction is necessary. The scientific-technical developments created before the process of its creation can be used in the course of the modernization of the existing motor pool of aviation engineering and creation of another promising aviation complex, the authors conclude. At present company “Sukhoi” approached the manufacture of the first experimental models of the fighter of the fifth generation. The beginning of flight tests is planned in 2009. The series production of aircraft can begin in 2015.